The LNER Encyclopedia

jdtoronto · Post by **jdtoronto** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:36 pm

I dont have much on 4472 in preservation, I have only ever seen her in LNER Green without deflectors, in 1988 in Australia.

She looked fine!

BUT - and there is always a BUT. SHe has appeared in a number of liveries over the years. As much as her early history is LNER most younger people will only have known her in her post-war livery. That is just as valid as the earlier livery. I think that if somebody want's to see her withouthte Kylchap exhaust (which she is fitted with) then maybe they can raise the oney, buy her, and do what they want! But that happened before didn't it and there were just as many complaints then.

Ultimately she will be dressed how the NRM wants her. They will respond to as many of the concerns as they can. But the simple fact is that it is far more important that she is preserved at all.

I don't care if she is in Kelly Green! What I do care about is being able to take my daughter to the UK, take fer to see "Flying Scotsman" and stand there and tell her about one of the great locomotives, designed by one of the great locomotive engineers in the birthplace of railways. Then it will bring a tear to my eye when I can climb into a coach behind 4472/60103 and go on a trip somewhere, who cares where as long as it can happen. It would be an even bigger thrill for a kid who learned all about Mallard when he was very young to go for a trip behind an A4. Hopefully it will happen before too long.

But please don't argue about the second rivet from the right on the third row from the bottom! Juyst be thankful that enough people have cared for long enough to preserve her and eventually pass her into the stewardship of the museum.

[rant concluded - climbs off soap-box and slinks off into the night]

John

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:58 pm

Climbing on to your vacant soap box John, it is after all an LNER engine...lets paint it pink and have done hey?

4472 was withdrawn 15th January 1963, by the 20th April she had been restored with a single chimney in LNER Green, and ran to the USA and Austraila. After Austrailia, she ran for a further 3 years, and then was sidelined for an overhaul, it was at this overhaul she gained the double chimney, and a stupid number on the side, with a horrible dirty looking green and the deflectors, in 1995 it was sold, and Dr Tony Marchington, returned it to 4472 in 1999, then lost out greatly on it, and had to sell it on in 2003 as we all know...and this is the first overhaul since then.

Soap box is vacant again

Mark t

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:27 pm

I think Flying Scotsmen looks better in LNER Apple Green as 4472 then in BR Green.

BUT

I think she should have the Double Chimney and Smoke Deflectors removed and the Single Chimney put on like Alan Pegler did when he saved her in 1963.

Any A3 looks better with the single Chimney then with those german deflectors.

Flying Scotsmen will be outshoped in BR Green Sometime between this overhaul and the next. As the NRM has promesed Steam Railway and its readers that it will do that. Also I remember reading in Steam Railway that 4472 will get the single chimney in the future.

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:08 pm

I belive they promised Steam Railway it would be in BR Green, and for a couple of days it will be at some point in the next 50 years, there is talk however, that a single chimney may apear now att his overhaul, but don't hold your breath (it won't be out until August 2007, you'd be dead!)

Mark T

cooperajn · Post by **cooperajn** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:24 pm

Should we be preserving locos as built - ie for Flying Sctsman with lower pressure boiler and short travel valves - or as developed to its most efficient form with double chimney and necessary deflectors?
Or do we just pick and choose the bits we like best?

Or do we recognise that someone else may have a valid liking as well??

TonyC

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:29 pm

Scrap the flaiming thing and have done.

Be thankfull it's running, no one complains about Olton Hall running in Harry Potter livery, although there are a few of them about.
If you like BR green go see Union of South Africa or Bittern when she comes back out.

There are a lot of safety issues with Steam Engine these days, and a double chimney is not easy to alter back, so the delectors have to be there for safety, if it was to be in BR Green, then the tender is wrong, it was Non Corridor in BR times..just a valid point!

Mark t

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:19 pm

I prefer my A3 to be Brunswick green with a single chimney, the only way I ever saw them.

Colombo

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:45 pm

Were you stood on a ladder there on York Station?
I can't remember when that was a platform, now it's filled in with bike racks down it!
Although I can remember the tracks through the middle, but wasn't that old then, I only moved to York in 1985, although I was cristened here in 1980!

Took me a while to find it in my Yeadon's register, using the BR number, but I like your A3 Colombo, pity you aren't modeling 09/12/39 - 28/03/43 it would be a local one then!
Or are you going to do the before 29/08/58 when it had a buffer stop collision in York?

Mark t

Post by **richard** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:54 pm

Colombo: I think Mark just gave your modelling skills a very high compliment!

Richard

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:01 pm

Hows about this then? the same view (ish) now in real life!

Looking at the picture, as I say that is where the bike racks are now, to the right you can just see the next platform, that now has no track, and next ot that one is platform 1!
Interesting fact, even though there used to be 17 platforms? and now there's 11, there are loads more trains going through now than in the Steam days!

Mark t

jdtoronto · Post by **jdtoronto** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:51 am

Well I think Colombo's modelling skills deserve recognition. He has successfully and quite beautifully captured the atmosphere of the place as well as the instantly recognisable architecture. With his namesake loco - Colombo - at the patform with a train for some wonderful destination. That's an A3 in the right setting!

What a sight!

John

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:07 am

This photograph must have been taken in about 1955 although I have not recorded the exact date. Colombo had just worked a local from Leeds City Station on a fill in turn in place of the usual D49. The stock had just been uncoupled and, smartly as ever, the J72 station pilot 68677 had just drawn the stock out to release the A3. The fireman has removed the front oil lamps and is fixing one at the rear, preparatory to the loco reversing out to the end of the platform, which it must do at once of course.

The photo was taken with a Brownie 127 from the top of a platform truck loaded with parcels. I recall that I was ejected from the platform at once and banned from the station.

The driver has noted the bent smokebox door handrail and it will be attended to on Sunday morning by the Neville Hill fitter, preparatory to working the Yorkshire Pullman to Kings X on Monday.

The photo of my model has the City Walls in the background and the Queens Street Bridge, which was built over the tracks into the site of the old York station built in 1841. In the background in the second photo can be seen the old No.1 Erecting Shop from York Locomotive Works, converted into the LNER lost property dept. In my model the City Walls have been moved forward and the Lost Property building moved along, to fit them both onto the baseboard. The latter building is also now a locoshed on my model, as I can't spare the space it occupies without using it that way.

By the way, nobody has yet mentioned that Colombo had a GN tender. Fortunately, I only changed the last 5 to a 6 on the photo. If I want 60036, I shall have to wait till I can get an A3 with a GN tender. In the meantime I shall have to choose another one for the renumbering.

Colombo

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:13 pm

I think that all the A3's looked better without the Smoke Deflectors and with the Double Chimney 4472 has to have them for safety.

I think it should be preserved in LNER Apple Green with the corridor tender, Single Chimney and 4472 Number. She looks better without the Deflectors.

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:43 am

x568wcn said no one complains about Olton hall. Belive me we do alot but this is an LNER forum and we generally don't talk about the stupid red thing. If you don't like Olton hall you should here the abouse I give it at every opertunity and the owner is much better either. As for Scotsman if it is to stay in this condition it needs to be in the right colour and it doesn't matter about the ill imformed non railway public there the ones who bring all those kids that wine, mone and generally ruign the sound on a shot as long as there on the oposite side of the window as it gos past Id be happy but its mostly enthusests that keep the Tours running. Thats why the China Bear rescue (august last year) ran at a loss because most enthusests like authenticity.
What have I started shall we rename this post make a point about Scotsman

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:01 pm

Tom Quayle wrote:it doesn't matter about the ill imformed non railway public

Well for Flying Scotsman, it REALLY DOES MATTER.

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