Returning to Grantham

[60022Mallard]

A bit late on the sugar beet but,

Being a Bury St Edmunds boy who can only just remember steam there I do not recall much in the way of beet being handled. What the factory did receive was coal (1970 30,000T) and limestone (from Wirksworth I believe, 1970 2,000T). Traffic out was pulp nuts which generally went out in complete trainloads of 12T vans (1970 23,000T), with Shrewsbury, Exeter and Carlisle being regular destinations, for feeding cattle. The nuts trains, presumably being worked by March men, could produce Class 25 diesels to Bury, a rare sight there in the late sixties.

The extra traffic was heavy enough to justify a second shunter being stabled at Bury in Class 03 days. I have steam days pictures of local small tender locos on trains of tarpaulined 16T mineral wagons which I believe were connected with the factory, but do not know for what traffic.

[AndyRush]

I think the vanfit trains handled the beet pulp as you say (fully processed animal feed in bags), the sheeted opens were what was called 'sliced nuts' if I recall correctly being taken elsewhere for further processing.

As an engine controller in Cambridge Control Office in the late 1960's, I confirm that Sulzer type 2's (later class 25) were the locos of choice on trains routed via Leicester or Colwick, as the booked engines were March Brush 2's (later class 31) which were supposed to return light from those places with the March men, but rarely did. If all else failed an EE type 3 (later class 37) was used on the grounds that not many LM men drove them, and they often found their way back light to March by default.

Andy

[52D]

Mallard i know the Bury factory well.
Your comment about sheeted mineral wagons is how the beet was despatched from small yards in the North east/Scottish Borders lines and is probably the same in this instance. The usual locos at the time would be K3s or J39s from Heaton, Tweedmouth or St Margarets and the destination would be the now closed plant at Cupar in Fife.
I presume traffic for Bury would be taken from the East Anglian branches by similar motive power from March.
Sorry for going offline John.

[workev]

In the early 1970s (1970/71) I remember coal being tripped by a Class 08 from Bury to Thurston for Dick Peachy Coal Merchants. At this time I think the signalbox was still in use, although it must have closed soon after. The coal was used primarily for the Sugar Beet factory, but a weekly trip went to Thurston (1 or 2 wagons).

Ian

[jwealleans]

coal being tripped by a Class 08 from Bury to Thurston for Dick Peachy Coal Merchants.

When we took Thurston to Thurston to show the locals, Dick Peachey came along and had a good look and a chat. He was amused to see himself on the layout.

[workev]

Back to Grantham!

I have been looking at my Keith Pirt books (starting off with the Eastern & North Eastern Region, and Eastern and Midland Region books from the Steam Portfolio series); and I have some questions:

1) On the front cover of the E&NE book is a shot of 60140 Balmoral (York - 50A) heading north with a Mk1 Horse Box behind the loco. I guess the shot is early 60s as there is no caption that I can find in the book as it does not have the outer cover. Can anybody shed any light on the likely train, or the regularity of horse-boxes in formations? I assume the loco took over at Grantham?

2) I have noticed in many of the shots in the late 1950s and early 1960s there are still some blood/custard (crimson/cream - Please can someone tell me what the BR(E) colours are). How common was this at that time?

3) There is a shot of 34F's 63933 returning south to Grantham from Doncaster on a freight with two sludge carriers in the formation behind the loco. Can anybody identify the types of tender used for carrying the sludge; and how often a week did this happen? 34F had a large water treatment facility and there were a lot of engines so I assume it was fairly regular?

4) On to the Parly's! Am I right in thinking that the Parly trains (like the SuO Grantham-Doncaster) were used predominantly for running in or positioning moves? On several occasions Keith seems to have got shots of Scottish based engines on running in turns from the Plant. These trains also seem to have been made up of whatever stock was lying around!

5) Does anybody have any recollections or views on what was rostered for the local trains between Grantham and Peterborough? There is a picture of J11 64397 in June 1959 on a local service between Grantham and Peterborough; a Colwick engine. B1s, V2s and pacifics have been noted on these services; but what was rostered?
A lot of questions (forgive me) but hopefully useful discussion points!

Ian

[61070]

That's been an interesting diversion into the field of sugar beet. From the 1960s-1980s my uncle Don managed a farm in Northants and I remember, in the 1960s, seeing them taking trailers loaded with beet down to the local station, where a handful of 16T mineral wagons had been placed in a siding for loading. That station was Pitsford & Brampton, by then closed to passengers for some years. Fortunately it's survived and is now the base of the Northampton & Lamport Railway.

Anyway, as Ian says, best get back to the topic in hand. Here are two more photos taken at Grantham shed during 1948-1954. An A1 and a B1 using the turntable. I haven't been able to ID the pacific - the numberplate's just not quite clear enough and there's no nameplate to assist.

[workev]

I'd go for 60132 (Marmion) or 60137 (Redgauntlet), both sheded at Gateshead. I cant make a call either way, but I think the last digit looks more like a 2 than a 7, so I'll plump for 60132!

Ian

[giner]

Strikes me the same way too, workev. 60132.

[JASd17]

I don't know which A1 it is, but the livery looks to be LNER Green with BRITISH RAILWAYS in full on the tender. So the picture will probably date from 1949 or up to the end of May 1950 for 60137. it is certainly 1949 for 60132 given the strength of the light in the picture.

John

[workev]

Looking at the WTTs for 1956/57 I see that a number of parcels trains left for Boston (1 morning/1 evening), along with other Parcels to York (morning and late evening). Can anybody tell me what locos worked these services. I assume that it was either B1s or V2s. I have seen photos of pacifics on these services including a Brit (70037).

The morning trains seemd to tie in with a KX train, with a lot of sorting taking place at Grantham (and I also assume splitting of the train too).

Did the Boston service get worked by a Boston or Grantham engine?

Ian

[CLOXTON]

Hi 61070,
It must be not after the photo was taken ,as the turntable
colasped in 1950 and they had to go out to Barkston triangle a journey
of about 6miles to turn round until the triagle was put in behind the coaling stage,
the turntable was removed and sent to melton constable

cloxton

[giner]

Quick question: so, at this stage, was there no numbering on buffer plate, or might it be obscured by the buffer in this shot of 87(?).

I shall defer to those who know much more than I do about livery detail. I can pick up no evidence of a signwritten number other than on the cabside, which appears to have three digits of which the first is almost certainly 8 (not ruling out 9 completely), the second is probably 7 and the third is indistinct. Whether that's because a number on the front is obscured by grime or because it isn't there, really I couldn't say.

Just a bump-up in case anyone with knowledge of the numbering schemes missed it the first time around. Can you shed some light on that V2 with what seems to be a missing bufferplate number? It just seems highly unlikely that that would be the case.

[52D]

I think the V2s took numbers in the 3xxx and 4xxx series prior to 1946.

[PGBerrie]

I'd go for 60132 (Marmion) or 60137 (Redgauntlet), both sheded at Gateshead. I cant make a call either way, but I think the last digit looks more like a 2 than a 7, so I'll plump for 60132!

The Green Book has a picture of 60133 at Grantham in March 1949 in LNER Green and with British Railways on the tender. But then last figure does look like a "2". It appears that Grantham originally had four allocated, but gave one up to Kings X shortly after their introduction. 60132 received its name in December 1950 and received blue livery in November 1949. It was built in October 1948. For 60137 the corresponding dates are June 1950.

Peter