Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Leviathan63 wrote:Very impressive! I'd like to see how it'll perform once its ready.
Horsetan wrote:Seeing as it's the original Hornby mechanism, it should be absolutely fine......
Well here's an interesting "short" story. I took GN for a quick play on a friend's recently DCC-ized layout last wednesday, where it behaved disgracefully, frequently stopping and suggesting that it had a short :oops: . I've not had much time to investigate until today, when I ran on my own "real electricity", on which it was much less troublesome but clearly "not quite right" - a bit stuttery or lurchy at times.
Well.......My modified valve gear is live to the chassis block. There should be no problem with shorting to the wheels and track because the wheels have plastic spokes separating the live rims from the axles. HOWEVER, I hadn't allowed for the closeness of the pick-up strips to the heads of the metal crankpins on the backs of the wheels. On running the loco upside down with power fed to the wheel-treads, I could see that one pin was arcing to the contact-strip each time it swept past :shock: . I've now coated the heads of the crankpins with epoxy!
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Tim79
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Tim79 »

That's rather strange Graeme. Going on my knowledge of Hornby wheels from the point of view of an EM modeller, the crankpin bolts go into metal threaded "nuts" that are a fully flush fit into the back of the wheels and have never (in my experience) caused a short. I remember only one occasion where I've had such a problem, but that was because I'd not spaced the coupling rods apart enough from the wheel bosses after rewheeling.

Something tells me that maybe one of the "nuts" isn't fully home, hence why it was touching the pickups. Can you tell us all which one it was perhaps please? Almost all Hornby locos have valve gear that is indeed live to the chassis block. One of those being the aforementioned model (a Stanier 8F).
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Left rear crankpin (as seen with loco the right way up, and "left" as the crew would see "left" when looking ahead). I'm looking further into this today too. I suspect the contact strip may not be perfect in shape, as all was not "sweetness and light" when I'd insulated the pin heads with a shallow domed film of epoxy. The "left rear" shorting problem was gone, but the middle left pin was then fouling the contact strip when the axle was pushed across (as it would be on a curve to the left) - this soon damaged the epoxy film and started more shorting, and on a couple of occasions the mechanical interference was bad enough with loco running in reverse to lock up the mechanism!
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Blink Bonny »

Ay up!

When building 44767, I had this problem after adjusting the centre crankpin several times to get the best movement from the Stephenson gear. The centre crank pin is capable of adjustment with noting more sophisticated than a pair of pliers and a bit of brute force. Under test, the pickups got wrapped round this because the bush had worked out of the wheel and was protruding. Take the offending wheelset out and tap the bush back in and all should be well.

EDIT - embarassing spelling mistake corrected! :oops:
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

A look under the keeper plate(s) revealed that the pins were fully home in the wheels, yet fouling of the pick up strip had occurred, either due to pre-existing distortion (or causing much distortion) of the pick up strip. More trouble came in the form of breakage of the soldered link between the motor lead and the pick-up stud on the keeper plate. I wasn't clumsy or heavy handed with it, honest Sir, it must have been almost like that when I first got there.....

I'll go and test the loco shortly. If all is well I'll post a picture or two later, plus commentary on working with no b***dy access!
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

After much attention to adjustment of contacts, and more work to make sure that the brakes stay "off", Great Northern is at last back to smooth, reliable, powerful running, but I may now be a bit short of time for posting pictures and full details this evening - but I will when I can. I should be able to sort out some links to video clips to show smooth crawling and gargantuan haulage feats too - along with a repetition of the same heavy haulage by D10 Prince Henry. I hope Messrs Bachmann and Hornby can do something similar with their 4-4-0s in future, without traction tyres, just as Prince Henry runs. I've even found my pre-digital, unskilled photographs of my D49 tart-up from 11 years ago, which may be appropriate alongside recently illustrated work on the Railroad re-issue of the Hornby loco.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

Very impressive haulage capabilities! 8)

20 coaches wouldn't be a problem for any of my locos either - I don't possess that many :!: :lol:

Great Northern looks superb stationery and in motion! :)
S.A.C. Martin

Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

As I said when I watched the video last night - top notch modifications. :D

The haulage is staggering! Everyone always says the Thompsons were light on their feet, but in model form Graeme, your Thompsons have been monstrous!
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Time for a look at the trouble I had with shorting pick ups and (still) dragging brakes yesterday. I'll get the images uploaded first and add text as the evening progresses - in between casting some resin items, "A Matter of Loaf and Death" and some Great Expectations later on - so if it doesn't all make sense at first, give it time....

Image
STA77447.JPG
That first image simply shows how the outer keeper plate (modified by me) carrying most of the brake gear comes off when un-screwed, releasing the two contact strips that lie beneath making contact with studs on the inner keeper plate. That plate is wired through to the motor - unless, like mine, it breaks off as soon as you touch the thing!

Image
STA77448.JPG
You can see here how very little free motor lead projects out of the bottom of the chassis, and as I've mentioned on another thread, it had previously proved impossible to pull any more of it through without at least loosening the mountings of the motor - even then it didn't free up very much so I wonder if you have to take the motor (or something else) right out? Anyway, this time around I was trying to confine activity to a "brief simple job" without even taking the loco body off yet another time, so......
I thought I could get more space in which to position the inner keeper plate, the wire, and a soldering iron if I undid the rear crankpins and put aside the rear wheelset. That worked fine for soldering, but the presence of the tight-fitting keeper plate and the wide Cartazzi unit (another item I didn't want to remove as that is a body-off job too) meant that I couldn't then sneak the wheelset back in under the keeper from front, rear or side, no matter how I twisted and turned things! By this time I was as "not amused" as Queen Victoria.
Short of dismantling a lot more than I wanted to disturb, the only thing for it was to de-solder, put the wheels back in, and then re-solder with great difficulty - I couldn't turn the keeper plate on edge by anything like as much as 90 degrees, couldn't hold the wire, and had to steer the iron in from an angle, carefully avoiding any plastic items. Somehow, it worked....

Image
STA77449.JPG
In the image at the top, I'd already straightened up the contact strips, but this close-up of the left strip after a first round of straightening shows the many kinks and ripples in the central portion that had been coming into contact with the crankpin on the back of the wheel. That pin (or its nut) rather surprisingly appeared to be fully-home, flush in the wheel. Regardless of that, while I had good access I made sure that my thin layer of insulating, retaining epoxy was smooth and complete over all of the backs of the pins/nuts.

Image
STA77452.JPG
After several trial re-builds and test runs, and much tweaking of pick-up strip shape, I finally had full power collection and no shorting on starights or curves, in both forward and reverse running, but an annoying tight-spot had re-appeared :shock: :twisted: . I eventually detected the fact that the outer keeper plate with its re-drilled holes and bodged joints had shuffled along slightly allowing one of the brake blocks to scuff intermittently. Only when I attended to this, so as to get the brakes well clear of the wheels as pictured here, was all finally well.
The brakes problem won't recur on any future examples of this loco, as I'll make more of a point of NOT breaking up the outer keeper plate and I'll have a finished example to work from when setting out positions for new holes.

Image
STA77454.JPG
Here you can see evidence of my belated further adjustment to the screw holes, filing them out at one side and filling them with epoxy at the other. This moved the front hole out of the edge of the outer plate altogether, so I made a brass plate to screw down over the end of that plate to maintain the secure fit.
As you may see, at least those resin cylinders have tidied up and painted nicely.......
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Blink Bonny »

Ay up!

44767 came to a sudden stop, its valve gear in total disarray.

The culprit? That $%£!! centre crank pin bush had wrapped the drivers' side pickups around it. All sorted and sweet running again.

Healer, heal thyself or what, eh? :lol:
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

In order to save me a special trip to the NRM, or a speculative purchase of drawings based on titles alone, can anybody please offer, or direct me to, a really clear image, or a good drawing, showing the wheel-driven crank and primary bevel gearbox that drive the first stage of the shaft of a Flaman speed recorder? Ideally I'd like to see the arrangement used on A1/1 Great Northern, including the details of shape and position of the bottom end of the inverted A-frame supporting bracket. As an alternative, a Flaman drive as fitted to any Peppercorn pacific, or just ANY Flaman drive on an LNER loco might do.

Any assistance much appreciated, of course.
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Horsetan
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Horsetan »

2002EarlMarischal wrote:....Great Northern looks superb stationery....
....and not just on paper either. :lol:
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

Horsetan wrote:
2002EarlMarischal wrote:....Great Northern looks superb stationery....
....and not just on paper either. :lol:
Have you seen it in the flesh then, you lucky chap?! :D
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

:roll: Somebody must be even more amused now than they were in first place. But we shouldn't laugh at others experiencing vowel trouble......
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