Hornby LNER Pacifics Discussion

[S.A.C. Martin]

There are pictures on mine on my LNER thread its the NRM versions you need to look at.

Ah, gotcha Mick. I will go have a look now.

[K160]

I'm seriously looking at getting 4491 Commonwealth Of Australia. Will look nice with some teak cars.

[All thumbs]

Considering the modelling possibilities offered by the proposed (and past and present) Hornby A1 and A3 models is something that fascinates me. Maybe even a hobby...

The only A1 representative in the 2012 range is the Railroad version of Flying Scotsman (as running from 1928-1937-ish) although I suspect that 2011's Royal Lancer will be with us for some time to come. Plus the steady availability of Great Northern, Flying Fox and Gladiateur on eBay is likely to keep model bashers happy!

Although Book Law's arrival is very welcome because it is an A3 with a 94HP boiler in LNER green (and the tender is Hornby's first NT in LNER green), the deep cab cutouts limits its usefulness from the arrival of the new-build A3s in 1928 to about 1937 when the cutouts were reduced to accommodate the footplate bucket seats. So as it comes out of the box, no good for wartime/late LNER/BR periods, I am afraid, without doing something with the cab. Also, alas, no good for re-naming/re-numbering as an A1/3 (A1 converted to an A3) unless converted from LHD to RHD.

As they come, the two NRM Flying Scotsman models have 94A boilers (the firebox rivets are a new wrinkle to me as well) but are in late (post-1959) BR condition with the double chimney and smoke deflectors and attached to streamlimed corridor tenders which no A1 or A3 ever pulled in revenue service. The one possibility mentioned, to pull off the deflectors and rename either as Humorist won't work because Humorist only ran with a lipped double chimney without deflectors (or vanes) between September 1937 and January 1938 when also fitted with a 94HP (domed) boiler. Humorist didn't get a 94A (banjo) boiler until 1946 - to represent it at that time, the model will also need smoke vanes to be fitted or, from April 1947, Peppercorn A1-style deflectors. So to turn the clock back before 1959 on either model will involve replacing the double chimney as well as removing the deflectors and fiddling with the handrails - probably better to start with a single chimney variant in the first place!

HTH

[S.A.C. Martin]

Considering the modelling possibilities offered by the proposed (and past and present) Hornby A1 and A3 models is something that fascinates me. Maybe even a hobby...

The only A1 representative in the 2012 range is the Railroad version of Flying Scotsman (as running from 1928-1937-ish) although I suspect that 2011's Royal Lancer will be with us for some time to come. Plus the steady availability of Great Northern, Flying Fox and Gladiateur on eBay is likely to keep model bashers happy!

Although Book Law's arrival is very welcome because it is an A3 with a 94HP boiler in LNER green (and the tender is Hornby's first NT in LNER green), the deep cab cutouts limits its usefulness from the arrival of the new-build A3s in 1928 to about 1937 when the cutouts were reduced to accommodate the footplate bucket seats. So as it comes out of the box, no good for wartime/late LNER/BR periods, I am afraid, without doing something with the cab. Also, alas, no good for re-naming/re-numbering as an A1/3 (A1 converted to an A3) unless converted from LHD to RHD.

As they come, the two NRM Flying Scotsman models have 94A boilers (the firebox rivets are a new wrinkle to me as well) but are in late (post-1959) BR condition with the double chimney and smoke deflectors and attached to streamlimed corridor tenders which no A1 or A3 ever pulled in revenue service. The one possibility mentioned, to pull off the deflectors and rename either as Humorist won't work because Humorist only ran with a lipped double chimney without deflectors (or vanes) between September 1937 and January 1938 when also fitted with a 94HP (domed) boiler. Humorist didn't get a 94A (banjo) boiler until 1946 - to represent it at that time, the model will also need smoke vanes to be fitted or, from April 1947, Peppercorn A1-style deflectors. So to turn the clock back before 1959 on either model will involve replacing the double chimney as well as removing the deflectors and fiddling with the handrails - probably better to start with a single chimney variant in the first place!

HTH

But if you have one of Graeme's superb resin stovepipe chimneys, the chimney modification can be done relatively inexpensively. Humorist with the double chimney, and with the A2 deflectors is a future project so the apple green NRM scotsman will the be fine for me, however a suitable LNER tender top needs to be found for Humorist for anyone else (which is easy for me as I have the necessary GNR tender tops, finally!).

[Daddyman]

Good work there, all thumbs.
What are the differences between the corridor tender on 4472 preserved and those running in the 1920s/30s?

[Saint Johnstoun]

Remember that the corridor tender supplied with Flying Scotsman is one of the 1928 ones modified to run with the A4s. All you have to do is cut back the curved fairing at the front carefully and you have the correct corridor tender for an A1/A3

The streamlined non corridor tender as fitted to some Hornby A4s is the one which has not yet been used behind an A3 so if you want to mix and match you can only do so with BR liveried locos.

As the Hornby A1/A3 body is modular, with careful dismantling one can create a number of variations by mixing and matching components. the cab is also removable with care, as are the covers fitted when long travel valves were fitted and Atlantic has already shown us how to remove the superheater header covers so they could be used on a suitable A1 body to create an A3.

[All thumbs]

But if you have one of Graeme's superb resin stovepipe chimneys, the chimney modification can be done relatively inexpensively. Humorist with the double chimney, and A2 deflectors, but with the A2 deflectors is a future project so the apple green NRM scotsman and a suitable LNER tender top needs to be found (which is easy for me as I have the necessary GNR tender tops, finally!).

As indeed I have for that very purpose (to recreate Humorist circa late 1947/early 1948 in LNER green, full size deflectors and GN tender). Up to now, I have considered Galtee More as the best starting point, being a LHD A3 with 94A boiler and GN tender although White Knight which is the same bar a NT tender is also worth consideration if you are also thinking of tender swapping. These are preferrable to St Gatien and Windsor Lad as they come with trough deflectors so that no adjustment to smokebox handrails is necessary. The conversion involves new chimney, replacement deflectors, a respray, re-numbering, re-lettering and re-naming whereas if starting with 2012's green Scotsman, the work involved is the same bar the respray. So what it boils down to is a re-spray into apple green of an earlier (and possibly cheaper - £60-£70) model or wait (and pay the 2012 price - £113.50 according to Rails) for the NRM Scotsman. [BTW beware that there is a slightly earlier Galtee More which is tender drive but shares the same Hornby catalogue number, R2720.]

I am currently awaiting some Isinglass drawings so I cannot comment on whether the deflectors from Bachmann's A1 or A2 offerings are suitable for Humorist but as Atlantic pointed out to me in a PM, fettling deflectors out of 10thou brass should not be beyond the capabilities even of a modeller who describes himself as "all thumbs"!

[All thumbs]

Remember that the corridor tender supplied with Flying Scotsman is one of the 1928 ones modified to run with the A4s. All you have to do is cut back the curved fairing at the front carefully and you have the correct corridor tender for an A1/A3.

A single coal rail is also needed along the tender side above the corridor.

The streamlined non corridor tender as fitted to some Hornby A4s is the one which has not yet been used behind an A3 so if you want to mix and match you can only do so with BR liveried locos.

I hate to be picky - but I must. Hornby put one behind a BR blue Flying Scotsman in a special set produced for M&S in 2006. But I take your point that there has not been an example from Hornby in apple green.

As the Hornby A1/A3 body is modular, with careful dismantling one can create a number of variations by mixing and matching components. The cab is also removable with care, as are the covers fitted when long travel valves were fitted and Atlantic has already shown us how to remove the superheater header covers so they could be used on a suitable A1 body to create an A3.

Just before Christmas, I acquired an example of Great Northern with the intention of converting it into 4475 Flying Fox circa 1925 to be posed alongside Pendennis Castle, an example of which I obtained at roughly the same time. However, too much haste. Hornby's PC seems to be in a later condition and has the wrong tender, and the A1 is in very poor condition. So poor that I now have it in mind to dissect it and post the photos here for edutainment purposes!

[S.A.C. Martin]

I can as I have the drawings in front of me. A2 type not A1 type. I believe mr Foster of this parish used A2 deflectors on his model of humorist too. I have a spare set from the A2/3 conversion Graeme did for me last year.

[Tim79]

I can as I have the drawings in front of me. A2 type not A1 type. I believe mr Foster of this parish used A2 deflectors on his model of humorist too. I have a spare set from the A2/3 conversion Graeme did for me last year.

I think you'll find that the A2 deflectors are not quite tall enough and the horizontal part of the handrail is also higher up - probably by a good 1.5mm or so. Ralph Jackson still sells these though, so all is not lost!

[S.A.C. Martin]

How so Tim? Were humorists deflectors not simply standard A2 as the Isinglass seems to suggest? The handrails were going to be changed as a matter of course.

[All thumbs]

I can as I have the drawings in front of me. A2 type not A1 type. I believe mr Foster of this parish used A2 deflectors on his model of humorist too. I have a spare set from the A2/3 conversion Graeme did for me last year.

You'll want yours, of course, but if anyone has a spare set (Bachmann A2) from a conversion, please PM me. Happy to swap for a trough set from a Brassmasters A3 detailing etch if more attractive than cash!

[Tim79]

How so Tim? Were humorists deflectors not simply standard A2 as the Isinglass seems to suggest? The handrails were going to be changed as a matter of course.

Check the angle of the cut-back. At its rearward end, it starts quite a bit lower than the halfway point than a standard A1/A2 deflector. On the latter, there is equal "fresh air" below.

[All thumbs]

How so Tim? Were humorists deflectors not simply standard A2 as the Isinglass seems to suggest? The handrails were going to be changed as a matter of course.

Check the angle of the cut-back. At its rearward end, it starts quite a bit lower than the halfway point than a standard A1/A2 deflector. On the latter, there is equal "fresh air" below.

Oh well, back to the brass sheet!

[Tim79]

Oh well, back to the brass sheet!

Far from it! They're available from Classic Train and Motor Bus (01926 887499). Much less hassle