Bryan wrote:
Under 9016 the track is BR 1 spikes from the look of it and on the other road looks like Mills clips.
Spiked track mainly laid mid late 50s and can still be found on the network but suffers from lack of grip on the spikes in the sleeper.
Almost impossible to tamp as when you clamp on the rails and lift the rails will lift but the sleeper stays in the ground. They cannot be used in CWR.
Thankfully we have none on the NYMR and I would hope never in the future.
Mills clips not to bad but soon lose grip so you will hear them rattling in the baseplate. Considered as being the forerunner of the current Fastclip design.
Thanks for your p-way expertise Bryan; sorry if I'm wrong here - I do hesitate to gainsay - but isn't it the other way around: spikes on the down line and clips on the up (on which D9016 is approaching)? There's a clearer shot of the track between the platforms in 1964 here: download/file.php?id=5664&mode=view
Here's the photo I took in Feb 1966, by which time it appears that the track has been rerailed using CWR (I can't see any fishplated joints). The up line appears to retain the same wooden sleepers and clip fasteners that are visible in the 1964 shots but the down line has been renewed from the sleepers up - no doubt because, as you said, the spike fasteners were incompatible with CWR.
cambois wrote: " I agree that the signalling equipment just under 60533 is a detonator placer. It looks the correct size for two machine dets, and has the necessary rodding to operate it. It is not very far from the facing points into the up slow, and could be a post Goswick fitting to provide some added warning if a train was going too fast. .... "
On balance of probabilities, I agree with the detonator placer theory.
The only alternative explanation that crossed my mind is that it could have been where rodding changed direction to go into the 'four-foot' to operate a Clearance Bar, but the visible rodding runs south, and I believe an Up Main clearance bar there would have been more likely to have been operated by North box. Also a simple change of rodding direction at that point would have merely required a crank that would not normally have needed any sort of cover.
As to why a detonator placer there, I have never known (proves nothing conclusively ) of one used to warn of excess speed (other than in the context of needing to get a train stopped in emergency, of course), and in that location there would barely be time for the footplate crew to react to the exploding detonators' warning before reaching the facing points mentioned.
I'm more disposed to the idea that, as I think from seeing other photographs, Yard box's home signals (i think that's the bottom of the main line signal's doll, with smoke deflector, in the photo's top right-hand corner) also included the Up Main Distant signal for South box, a det. placer could have existed for fog/falling snow working when it would have been used to warn drivers of the Distant being at Caution. ...
Thank you both very much for your thoughts on this. I fear this may be one of those occasions where I ought to have done my own 'homework' first, and gathered some clearer photographic coverage of the same location before posing the question and putting people to trouble. In Cawston's book LNER Steam at Grantham there are several such shots, and a detail from the clearest of them is attached. All that can be seen is the protective board cover - more intact than in the 60533 photo - but it shows the arrangement to be more extensive than it appeared. Sorry for not thinking to research this a little more initially. Any further thoughts?
Stevie - you are right that the South Box distant signals were beneath the Yard Box home signals' lower arms. The Yard Box home signals had co-acting high level arms, but the South Box distant arms were not duplicated. That is indeed the smoke deflector attached to the up main line doll. The GN somersault arms here were replaced by upper quadrant during the 1930s; then in the mid/late 1950s (before September 13th 1958 is the most accurate information I have at present) the co-acting semaphore arrangement was replaced by a searchlight colour light signal (with route indicating feather) and a banner repeater toward the north end of the up platform.
Not to worry 61070.
It caused me to collect numerous thoughts together about fog signalling and detonator placers, which I have not brought to mind for many years .
However, your extracted part of another photo is very interesting, because I am not at all convinced that it shows the same equipment/arrangement of the earlier 'Happy Knight' photo.
In the earlier photo I only see one 'cover' item by the rail, with an operating rod of some sort leading away in parallel with the rails, but the new image shows two wooden(?) constructions (neither of which, to me, look quite the same as the item in the first photo) on the outside of the rail, seemingly connected by a lesser, joining board or cover along the rail's side, with no emerging mechanism or rod visible.
And I'm sorry but neither do I recognise the items in this latest photo, and can think of no suggestion as to their purpose.
No problems, like StevieG it got all sorts of old thoughts back, which is no bad thing at all. And I certainly learnt something from the exchange. I agree with StevieG the two look different, and I struggle to see what the second photo shows, certainly nothing that fits my experience. The only possible thought is some sort of locking bar/loco detection bar, but it does not look right for that so I have rejected that idea.
Thanks for all the replies folks; a simple question generated nearly two pages of topic!
John, thanks also for the update on the delivery of Coal to the Shed.
Right, done the trackwork, so what's next?
Buildings. Plans of the buildings are very few and far between, indeed that also extends to any of the structures at the shed as well.
So use of photos and some thought of dimensions is going to have to come into play for my model.
An appeal therefore for any photos, or links to photos of the shed buildings and station buildings. John has some lovely shots of the platforms and some of the facilities but anymore would be gratefully received. I am yet to find many photos of the outside of the station at the roadside (more questions re vehicles, buses and freight handling may cover these...).
There is a book on eBay from the Grantham Journal that covers the late 1950s/early 60s does anybody have a copy and does this have suitable images for transport, etc in Grantham at that time?
61070 wrote:Hello Roy and Ian - yes, Ken did tell us the name of the colliery near Doncaster but I can't remember its name at the moment either! I have Ken's address so maybe I'll drop him a line and ask.
Going back to July when Ian (workev) asked about sources of locomotive coal, Ken Willetts has kindly responded to a note I sent him at Christmas. He remembers that locomotive coal arrived at Grantham from Yorkshire collieries including Harworth, Rossington, Maltby, Brodsworth and Denaby.
Thanks for your research again John,re.coal at Grantham.I now recall Ken mentioning Maltby Main,I believe,and that we at Grantham only had high grade stuff.
Kind regards,Roy.
61070 wrote:
Thanks for your p-way expertise Bryan; sorry if I'm wrong here - I do hesitate to gainsay - but isn't it the other way around: spikes on the down line and clips on the up (on which D9016 is approaching)? There's a clearer shot of the track between the platforms in 1964 here: download/file.php?id=5664&mode=view
Here's the photo I took in Feb 1966, by which time it appears that the track has been rerailed using CWR (I can't see any fishplated joints). The up line appears to retain the same wooden sleepers and clip fasteners that are visible in the 1964 shots but the down line has been renewed from the sleepers up - no doubt because, as you said, the spike fasteners were incompatible with CWR.
Don't know which track is which but the one the loco 60157 is on, in your linked photo, is the mills clips with the BR 1 spikes on the other.
StevieG wrote:
However, your extracted part of another photo is very interesting, because I am not at all convinced that it shows the same equipment/arrangement of the earlier 'Happy Knight' photo.
In the earlier photo I only see one 'cover' item by the rail, with an operating rod of some sort leading away in parallel with the rails, but the new image shows two wooden(?) constructions (neither of which, to me, look quite the same as the item in the first photo) on the outside of the rail, seemingly connected by a lesser, joining board or cover along the rail's side, with no emerging mechanism or rod visible.
And I'm sorry but neither do I recognise the items in this latest photo, and can think of no suggestion as to their purpose.
cambois wrote:
I agree with StevieG the two look different, and I struggle to see what the second photo shows, certainly nothing that fits my experience. The only possible thought is some sort of locking bar/loco detection bar, but it does not look right for that so I have rejected that idea.
Thanks - I agree that there's definitely a difference in what we're seeing in the two photos, and it's more than just that some of the wooden protective covering for the operating rod has gone missing in the 60533 shot. I should have mentioned that the second photo I posted (from Cawston) was probably taken in the early 1930s, and 60533 1948-54, so there's around 20 years betwen the two. I'll keep looking for more images of that spot during that period (1930s - early '50s). A photo dated May 1953 http://a1steam.com/index.php?option=com ... &Itemid=69 shows flat bottom rail on the up line and no sign of our 'device'. There is also no longer a turnout at that spot in the down line. Your time and thoughts are appreciated.
workev wrote:
An appeal therefore for any photos, or links to photos of the shed buildings and station buildings. ... I am yet to find many photos of the outside of the station at the roadside (more questions re vehicles, buses and freight handling may cover these...).
There is a book on eBay from the Grantham Journal that covers the late 1950s/early 60s does anybody have a copy and does this have suitable images for transport, etc in Grantham at that time?
Ian
Have you seen BackTrack Vol.10 No.5 May 1996? On pages 276 and 277 there are a few colour photos including the station approach frontage, the water tower on station approach and some of the platform buildings (all taken on 1st Oct 1970). I've found the Vintage Carriages Trust good for the odd back number.
I expect you'll have GNR Engine Sheds Vol.1?
Do you have a link to the book on ebay?
Last edited by 61070 on Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I will try and find a copy of the Back Track somewhere, thanks for the info.
I have some books that show buildings, including the GNR sheds book; but even so there are standard views. I will have to try and piecemeal stuff together and then post to see what folks think!
I a meet to visit Grantham Library (time more than anything); so hopefully this will yield more on life in and around the station.
Onto a subject that maybe I will get some interest going.
I am looking at what freight was actually processed at Grantham. I know that Aveling Barford sent out finished product; but I assume also that they received materials both by road and train, Was this delivered on flats (Steel, etc) and Vans?
I have seen several Cattle trucks which I assume were regular traffic; if so were these on the pick-up freight services that went to or through Grantham?
What other foodstuffs or agricultural goods were processed through Grantham?
I hope to reflect the general freight as well as the through services of coal, iron ore, etc.
Finally, has anybody got any idea of the haulage companies other than BRS that serviced Grantham Station?
There must have been significant traffic in flour etc since from memory Lee and Grindling had extensive wharehousing and presumably milling equipment near the S end of the station.
Hi, new member here. I have been following this thread for a few months and decided it was about time I joined in.
Born and bred in Grantham area, spotter from the mid sixties, now living in Sheringham.
Lee and Grinlings was a malster making malt for the local brewer, Mowbray's of Brewery Hill off Wharf Road. My granddad was foreman at the maltings in Spring Gardens which backs on to the railway.
Catching up with 'ianwales' question on page 46, I have memories of the only A1 I ever saw stopped to take water on the down platform with a long rake of empty iron ore wagons presumably from the high dyke, loco looking very clean. was it Kestrel or Osprey or is my memory not what it used to be, i was only 13 or 14 at the time. If anyone else remembers this occasion i would like to hear, there were other people on the platform at the time and all was refused a cabbing
Mike
ps why does it say NER Y7 0-4-0 T underneath my username.
Last edited by Barrowby on Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
) of one used to warn of excess speed (other than in the context of needing to get a train stopped in emergency, of course), and in that location there would barely be time for the footplate crew to react to the exploding detonators' warning before reaching the facing points mentioned.
.
