Pre-Grouping coaching stock

Frazmataz · Post by **Frazmataz** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:20 am

Does anyone know where I could find kits of Pre-Grouping Six-wheel coaches, from any of the constituent companies, in 4mm scale?

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:36 am

I think Ebay is probably your only option at the moment. D & S would have been the man for what you want. I've recently picked up both GE and MS&LR kits that way.

You could try Jim McGeown (Connoisseur) but I suspect most of his 4mm stock was 4 wheel and he has stopped production at the moment.

Bill Bedford is worth a look - I can't recall if he offers any 6 wheel protoypes.

Blacksmith do a 6 wheel chassis if you find any 'body-only' kits.

Another option might be to cut down some Triang clerestories if you can find drawings to work to - I was looking at one at Thirsk at the weekend and it looked very effective.

Frazmataz · Post by **Frazmataz** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:18 pm

thanks for the pointers. Kit-bashing is a no go for me, having had no prior experience in such conversions.

rob · Post by **rob** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:20 pm

Bass-if you are happy to build etched brass it might be worth calling Dan Pinnock as he may just still have some kits available from old stock.Bill Bedford does at least 5 GNR 6 wheelers and I think a no. others,possibly GCR and MGN,I'm not sure. However,you will need to source castings and roof so may end up "kitbashing" that way.Heres an heretical suggestion,but one I am considering-looking at a lot of pre-group 4 and 6 wheelers there seems to be a strong generic resemblance and if you are not after Steve Banks style accuracy,you could try a kit for a non- LNER company.Jim Mc Geown had a range ofS&DJR 6 wheelers which he developed because they were good,generic prototypes which were apparently happily used by customers for a wide range of companies-many of these coaches came originally from outside builders with minor changes from user to user.I have thought of trying one of the Slaters MR/GSWR 6wheelers to see if it might suit.Many years ago there was an article in RM on converting the Ratio MR clerestories to GCR prototypes with some caveats such as no of compartments etc but I have followed it to produce a no of cheap and cheerful conversions which I am happy capture the general appearance and atmosphere.Take a look at the Slaters kits perhaps and let us know what you decide.Hope this is some help!

Frazmataz · Post by **Frazmataz** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:38 pm

thanks for the suggestions

do Pinnock or Bedford have a website?

rob · Post by **rob** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:27 am

Dan Pinnock does not have a website but Bill Bedford is at www.mousa.uk.com ,sorry I can't do a direct link! I think you can access this through the very useful Scalefour site as well .Good luck! Rob

Frazmataz · Post by **Frazmataz** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:06 pm

rob wrote:Many years ago there was an article in RM on converting the Ratio MR clerestories to GCR prototypes with some caveats such as no of compartments etc but I have followed it to produce a no of cheap and cheerful conversions which I am happy capture the general appearance and atmosphere.

This doesn't sound like a bad idea... Do you know which Railway Modeller it was? Or, if you own it, maybe you could provide me with some scans?

rob · Post by **rob** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:07 pm

Bass,if you can hang in there a bit I think I can lay my hands on the article,though its pretty basic it worked for me.I should be able to get a photocopy done at some stage,no acess to a scanner!I will also try to post a photo of some of the coaches-I used them last summer as guinea pigs for a better "teak effect",they were originally done in Gloy teak,a kind of metallic (!,but not as bad as it sounds)effect,so they should not be too far away.The only drawback at the moment is that Ratio do not do bogies separarely any more,but if you are really keen on the idea they might still be able to help-I used their LNWR bogies with some modifications and they supplied me with a batch of kits recently and very kindly packed the LNWR bogies at no extra cost.I bought about 10 kits though,but they are a really cheap and easy way to get clerestories as well as being really easy to build-the roof is a superb fit,outstanding tooling,leaves all other kits I've built standing and roofs are the dark art of coachbuilding!

jwealleans · Post by **jwealleans** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:11 pm

I'd be interested to see a copy of that article if you're going to hunt it out, Rob. I have some of the Hornby clerestories which I gather convert into GC prototypes and a Ratio or two might give a bit of variety to a rake.

Frazmataz · Post by **Frazmataz** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:05 pm

rob wrote:Bass,if you can hang in there a bit I think I can lay my hands on the article,though its pretty basic it worked for me.I should be able to get a photocopy done at some stage,no acess to a scanner!I will also try to post a photo of some of the coaches-I used them last summer as guinea pigs for a better "teak effect",they were originally done in Gloy teak,a kind of metallic (!,but not as bad as it sounds)effect,so they should not be too far away.The only drawback at the moment is that Ratio do not do bogies separarely any more,but if you are really keen on the idea they might still be able to help-I used their LNWR bogies with some modifications and they supplied me with a batch of kits recently and very kindly packed the LNWR bogies at no extra cost.I bought about 10 kits though,but they are a really cheap and easy way to get clerestories as well as being really easy to build-the roof is a superb fit,outstanding tooling,leaves all other kits I've built standing and roofs are the dark art of coachbuilding!

sure, I can wait

Thanks again for your help!

rob · Post by **rob** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:14 pm

I have the photocopies ready if you would like to PM me with addresses,came out quite well too!

rob · Post by **rob** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:55 pm

Hope to get those copies off to you both to-morrow afternoon,with luck should arrive Tue/Wed next week,
Cheers,
Rob

Frazmataz · Post by **Frazmataz** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:59 pm

cool, thanks for that

rob · Post by **rob** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:52 pm

Here are a few pictures of the GCR adaptations from the Ratio kits.They were done initially about 14 years ago and repainted last Summer as practice at "Teak" effect,having previously been finished in the old Gloy Teak,a kind of metallic effect which was not too bad in its day-thus the finish is quite thick,the mouldings are better than these coaches indicate.
Bogies are slightly modified LNWR from Ratio as well,with ABS NER ventilators and I think BR battery boxes-dynamos are just the crude Kirk moulding.My information was limited to two photos in the then just published "Buckingham Branchlines" by Peter Denny and the RM article.However the general outline is very like the two coaches in GCR Brown/Cream livery inside the front cover,the biggest difference is that though electrically lit the clerestory has glass in it,the Ratio kit doesn't.Is it odd that the GCR was building electrically lit clerestories?-the dynamo is clearly visible and the boxes -and it looks like a works photo.I always assumed the very purpose of clerestory was for gaslit vehicles?
I also think accurate kits for these coaches were once available from Puffers,and I have seen a Steve Banks article on them at some stage,might be worth chasing that up.

Well keep me posted,and any further information would be most welcome as I bought a batch of kits for future use from Ratio this June.I'm very happy with them as an approximation,fully accepting they won't content the purist! Cheers,
Rob

Frazmataz · Post by **Frazmataz** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:32 pm

they look very good

the teak effect is great!

I presume the article you just sent me only deals with bogie coaches, and not the 6 wheelers I've been looking for? I love the look of these bogie coaches and would like to make a few, but if the article had something about 6 wheelers that would be a bonus