Kings Coss Passenger Loco

[harvester]

EE type4, Peaks Brush 4!!!!!!!! I always wanted to sign my name down the side with an oxy-acetelene torch, they were responsible for the demise of my beloved A3s and A4s. But today I suppose its better than watching motorised carriages!

[Mickey]

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[John C]

EE type4, Peaks Brush 4!!!!!!!! I always wanted to sign my name down the side with an oxy-acetelene torch, they were responsible for the demise of my beloved A3s and A4s. But today I suppose its better than watching motorised carriages!

Great posting harvester it made me smile

I always like to remember a dvd i have about the DELTICS whereby the original steam spotter's at the Cross hated them even one fella was seen (not on film) being 'caught short' on the side of a DELTIC (which Deltic it was wasn't mentioned?)

But by the time the dvd ends with the final run up the ECML into the Cross the train enters the terminal with a mass of people 'clapping hands' and to a hero's welcome!!

One fella even kneels down on the platform and with tears running down his face kisses the DELTIC on it's side and bows his head in reverance

....or maybe he was the bloke that got caught short all those years ago, and was now bowing his head in shame?

JC.

[Mickey]

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[strang steel]

You are right Micky, todays hated classes are the futures heroic locos.

Just imagine in the future when the final surviving class 91 leaves Kings Cross for Edinburgh, there will be hundreds there filming it for Youtube and trying to get a preservation society set up.

I bet that there were some in the past who did not like the original A1s because they displaced other classes such as Atlantics from the ECML.

[thesignalman]

Deltics were handsome engines but to work with them at Kings Cross was not so much fun, the fumes were the foulest of all diesels and we copped it truly in the box at times. My worst time with them was to catch the 1800 "off the bank" (platform 16) at the end of a twelve-hour shift on a hot summers day with the windows of the non-corridor stock naturally wide open. If that and the 1800 Newcastle out of 8 were bang on time (which they usually were) we shared Gas Works Tunnel tunnel and I'm quite surprised anybody was still alive when we came out the other end. It was not fun, and I could identify that unique smell today.

One other thing that has always intrigued me. On the GN the Peaks (which worked in from Newcastle and Leeds) were regarded as slow and sluggish and always lost time against the much more common Brush 4s (as did the English Electrics). But when I went to the Midland in 1973 it was the less common Brush 4s that lost time while the Peaks used to shoot about like a scalded cat. One was had with radar guns at Radlett when I was on duty at 109 according to the Traction Inspector). I guess it was just driver familiarity that made the difference.

John

[hq1hitchin]

Deltics were handsome engines but to work with them at Kings Cross was not so much fun, the fumes were the foulest of all diesels and we copped it truly in the box at times. My worst time with them was to catch the 1800 "off the bank" (platform 16) at the end of a twelve-hour shift on a hot summers day with the windows of the non-corridor stock naturally wide open. If that and the 1800 Newcastle out of 8 were bang on time (which they usually were) we shared Gas Works Tunnel tunnel and I'm quite surprised anybody was still alive when we came out the other end. It was not fun, and I could identify that unique smell today.

One other thing that has always intrigued me. On the GN the Peaks (which worked in from Newcastle and Leeds) were regarded as slow and sluggish and always lost time against the much more common Brush 4s (as did the English Electrics). But when I went to the Midland in 1973 it was the less common Brush 4s that lost time while the Peaks used to shoot about like a scalded cat. One was had with radar guns at Radlett when I was on duty at 109 according to the Traction Inspector). I guess it was just driver familiarity that made the difference.

John

You're not wrong about Deltic exhaust fumes, John and, in today's more environmentally concious world, no doubt measures would need to be taken to control their excesses, similar to the prohibition that I believe still exists on HST power cars at the Lawn end of Paddington starting up any longer than ten minutes before booked departure time. This was imposed in Railtrack days following numerous complaints about poor air quality on the station. In our time on the GN, nobody seemed too fussed - just remember Moorgate in diesel days.

Regarding the Peaks, I think the sprightly running on the Midland might partly be accounted for by the fact that their Class 45s had Crompton Parkinson electrical equipment whereas the Class 46 which we saw more of on the GN had Brush. I can remember a Cambridge St driver telling me that this resulted in the 45 being a far faster machine.

[thesignalman]

Regarding the Peaks, I think the sprightly running on the Midland might partly be accounted for by the fact that their Class 45s had Crompton Parkinson electrical equipment whereas the Class 46 which we saw more of on the GN had Brush. I can remember a Cambridge St driver telling me that this resulted in the 45 being a far faster machine.

Ah, thanks for that Bert, didn't know the detail. I think we used to see both types on the Midland but I wouldn't really have identified the difference - but mostly 45s of course. I suspect the others were the same batch out of 55A that we had visiting Kings Cross.

J

[thesignalman]

MARYLEBONE was only good for Rolls Royce DMUs for 98% of the time unless you wanted to see the Aylesbury newspaper train hauled by a class 25 depart MARYLEBONE at 4:am?

About half past two, from memory, Micky.

Sorry, Mick, I got mixed up. I was thinking of the afternoon parcels when I replied. Did you not see that on your visits? Always out of Platform 1.

I can't say I ever visited Marylebone at 4am (until I worked there) and wonder what you were doing there at such an hour?

John

[Hermit 109]

Hi Signalman, on the GN we had class 46 which differed slightly from the class 45's they had on the Midland. I believe the 45's gave better performance than the 46's. I always enjoyed working the 46's as they had a nice driving position and the secondman's side was equally comfortable, but you had to work them hard to maintain time as the top speed was 90mph as opposed to 95mph on a class 47. Only problem was negotiating tight curves in yards and sidings as I discovered one night when the road gave way under the loco in Ferme Park down yard and we finished up in the dirt.
Incidentally, the first batch of class 47's we got in 1963, D1500-D1520 if memory serves me correctly, were noticeably better performers than the later machines, but a 47 would struggle to maintain timings on the limited load ( 8 coach / 280 tons ) business trains 07.45/07.55 King's Cross to Leeds & Newcastle & corresponding up services, which were rostered Deltic duties. Any PWS en-route would generally mean a few minutes lost which would be hard to recover on a 47, but easy with a Deltic.
Often used to think of you guys in the box when we sat underneath you waiting to depart with 13 or 14 bogies from platform 7 with the Night Aberdonian sleeper and our Deltic throwing exhaust fumes up at the box. Happy days!

[strang steel]

One other thing that has always intrigued me. On the GN the Peaks (which worked in from Newcastle and Leeds) were regarded as slow and sluggish and always lost time against the much more common Brush 4s (as did the English Electrics). But when I went to the Midland in 1973 it was the less common Brush 4s that lost time while the Peaks used to shoot about like a scalded cat. One was had with radar guns at Radlett when I was on duty at 109 according to the Traction Inspector). I guess it was just driver familiarity that made the difference.

John

Yes John, I have seen this mentioned before that the 45s were much better locos than 47s.

I have very little extra comment, except that the 47s were downrated in order to extend engine life.

Could it be a cover up that 512 locos which were supposedly the downfall of the hydraulics, must not be revealed?

[sandwhich]

The Class 31/40/46/47/55 diesels became the staple diesel diet at the cross pre HST/electrification, but lets go back a bit further. It all started off with 20 Class 26 in 1958 by 1960 they were in Scotland as were the 10 North British Type 2s, there were also some Class 20s and the Paxman type 1. Can anybody remember the 10 "baby deltics" built in 1959 taken out of service in 1962, came back into service in 1965 and finally taken out of service as non standard in 1968. English Electrics only dud. I am sure they were noiser and emited more fumes than their big brothers. terrible machines and only 1100 hp. remember them well. dreaded getting on one. They crept into the pass loco now and then. Mostly dealt with at Clarence Yard.

[Hermit 109]

Hi Sandwhich, I agree 100% with your opinion of the Baby Deltics. They were based at Hitchin and the crews there seemed to like them, but like you, I dreaded working on them. The steam heat boilers were a nightmare, it was never pleasant in the boiler room and they frequently threw flames out of the boiler exhaust. I remember running into Finsbury Park one evening rush hour, the punters on the platform were all pointing at the roof of the engine and when I looked, sure enough we looked like a mobile Roman Candle.
The Baby Deltic's also had a strange brake handle if I remember correctly that required some practice to operate.
Talking of weird brakes can anyone remember the equalising vacuum brake that was fitted to some class 31's. I tapped the blocks in the old platform 8 with an empty stock train by releasing the brake too early and not able to get it back on in time. Luckily we were only doing less than walking pace, but red faces all round, and the train was taken out of service for examination, after which there was an enquiry at GN House the following week. Humble pie all round.

[hq1hitchin]

Hi Sandwhich, I agree 100% with your opinion of the Baby Deltics. They were based at Hitchin and the crews there seemed to like them, but like you, I dreaded working on them. The steam heat boilers were a nightmare, it was never pleasant in the boiler room and they frequently threw flames out of the boiler exhaust. I remember running into Finsbury Park one evening rush hour, the punters on the platform were all pointing at the roof of the engine and when I looked, sure enough we looked like a mobile Roman Candle.
The Baby Deltic's also had a strange brake handle if I remember correctly that required some practice to operate.
.

Not down yet! - they're actually building one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtv0s1JQ ... re=related

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Funny thing Nostalgia. I am of the "diesel generation" but never could see the fuss about the Deltics. I thought they were bulbous and made a noise which did nothing for me. The noise of the HST "screeeEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" did even less but I liked the shape. They were reviled by spotters of the day but look how things have changed now? Wouldn't we all rather have an HST than a Vorgin Cattle Train? Personally, I reckon the HSTs were far better than the Mk4s. And they were galaxies ahead of the Mk1 and Mk2 stock.

Nah, gimme a proper loco with a chimney at one end and a coal bunker at t'other!