Dia 113 Full Brake

[Dave]

Does anybody have a picture of a Dia113 with turnbuckle underframe specificly showing the vac pipe side they would share with me or point me in the direction of a publication which shows said.

Thanks Dave.

[Green Nigel]

A proper Gresley full brake. No angle iron and fox boogies I presume?. I think the vac pipe was opposite the Guards duckets side, I will post again to confirm. I had to post because these need far more recognition being the more typical LNER full brake unlike the angle iron Gresley boogie type that predominate in railway modelling.

[65447]

Dave,

Would the lower left photo on p20 in Nick's HCD volume 1, Pendragon do?

[Dave]

Yes to both postings.

I do not have that book so don't know the pic.

Thank you

[john coffin]

picture and diagram also in michael harris volume from mallard
lner standard gresley carriages isbn 0953289605 photo pp174, small drawing pp175


paul

[Dave]

Thank you John I have that book but I've left it at work, but I did not think it had a turnbuckle pic...I will check again.

Mike all I need to know is does the vac pipe run horizontal for all it's length or does it bend down at it's centre ie ---___/---

[65447]

Dave,

Cannot guarantee for certain because it's shaded by the foorboards, but it appears to turn up from behind the headstock, run straight to the opposite end before turning down again behind the far headstock - no devaiation at the centre.

The location is immediately underneath the footboards, and with the underside of the pipe level with the bulb angle of the solebar.

[MikeTrice]

Perhaps a more important question is "Why do they dip"?

[65447]

The photo in Standard Gresley Carriages is of a D113 but with an angle truss underframe. However, being a broadside works photo, everything is very clear. Both in this and the photo in HCD of an earlier truss-rod underframe the pipe run is level along the solebars, dropping only at each end to turn under the solebar behind the headstocks.

The connection to the Guard's brake valve is a 'T' piece, from which a branch pipe drops vertically and then turns under the solebar at right angles. If this arrangement were different, i.e. a drop at the centre of the main run (custom and practice variations between works/contractors), then it presumably would be to accommodate a different arrangement of this 'T' connection.

[Dave]

All the pictures of D113 with angle iron underframes I can remember seeing show the vac pipe with a joggle in the middle.

I've just made up 2 sets of vac pipes with joggles in the centre for 2 of the 4 model D113's with turnbuckle underframe's I'm building....then had a nagging thought that I've ignored for sometime until this weekend, until I felt I needed an authorative answer, did it do the same on a turnbuckle underframe. I've left one ref book at work to no luck till next week.....need to get on modelling.....my GA plan does not show any pipework...typical.

My feeling is that the turnbuckle ran straight with no joggle in the centre.

Interesting question Mike T.....I've wondered why the angle iron underframes vans had that joggle, there seems no reason for it, but there must be, as you know none of the underframe GA's so far give an explanation for this.

At least the speed of light question may be resolved soon !!

[65447]

Supplementary - why did the pipe run along the solebar and not below the underframe?

[sawdust]

Supplementary - why did the pipe run along the solebar and not below the underframe?

Space is very tight between the bogie and underframe. The steam main takes this route but is only 1 1/2" bsp where as the vacuum pipe is 2 1/2" bsp. Also the outside of the solebar provides easy fixing points. The steam main dangles off a series of awkward to drill and bolt brackets as it dips towards the centre drip valve.

Sawdust.

[MikeTrice]

Andrew, any idea why some vac pipes "dip"? The D167 dip under the kitchen area but this might just be to avoid the stepboards. Not obvious why they dip on the full brakes though.

[MikeTrice]

Study of photographs suggests that there are two syphon tees located along the vacuum pipe, one to each vacuum cylinder. One points downwards and then bends to the vac cylinder, so the pipe is straight. The other in the middle of the "dip" comes out sideways and goes straight across to the off side vac cylinder. Still no obvious reason for this dip as to my knowledge no other vehicles need this to reach the offside vac cylinder. Not all D113s feature this dip either. Strange.

[sawdust]

Andrew, any idea why some vac pipes "dip"? The D167 dip under the kitchen area but this might just be to avoid the stepboards. Not obvious why they dip on the full brakes though.

Yes they have to dip under the stepboards. As to why the full brake should dip, from what you describe the middle dip and right angle T will be for a 2 1/2" pipe to supply the guard's application valve. The 113s without a dip must have the T vertical and an extra elbow under the solebar. All coaches will have 2 half inch feeds to the brake cylinders.

Sawdust.