Confused

[60800]

This is a promo photo for the Elizabethan express. Does anyone know what year it is, and and also, why is it Mallard? As far as I was aware, 60017 Silver Fox was the premier loco for the Elizabethan (I know it's a Br express, but with a Gresley A4 and some very nice Thompson coaches, it fits the bill of LNER locomotives and rolling stock quite well methinks).

[richard]

Aside: "on topic" for these forums is the LNER itself, its Constituents and BR-onwards regions/routes. So, for example Kings Cross and Deltics are on topic. But there's a definite grey area: Technically, 9Fs on the Consett iron ore run are definitely on topic, but Swindon-based 9Fs are not! I tend to let things slide more than I should in those grey areas. Another example, Class 37s and 66s are going to be too general, but I would include Class 91s as on topic.

[strang steel]

Ok.

[60800]

As long as the Hull business train, anything LMS or GWR, non Oliver Bulleid southern things and those awful pacers are omitted, I'm perfectly happy with what's on topic

[jwealleans]

I'm curious as to why you're curious about 'Mallard'? It was a 34A A4, a very famous engine and would have taken it's turn on a KX working. Why would you not expect to see it in this kind of photo?

[60800]

I suppose it would be depending on the date the photo was taken as to wether I expect it to be 60017 or not. Evidently, if it was during 1954, I would expect it to be 60017 on a promo picture, instead of a different A4 like 60022.

My mind seems to recall an A1 or A2 once headed the Elizabethan. Can anyone confirm this?

[Tom F]

My mind seems to recall an A1 or A2 once headed the Elizabethan. Can anyone confirm this?

Only if it was deputising during a failure. It couldn't have done the complete run seen as only the A4s at this point had corridor tenders.

Agreement with jwealleans, 22 was a 34A loco, so would have been rostered at some point...not sure of how many A4s were at 34A at this point, but it would have been a good few. So don't see any reason why 60022 wouldn't have been on it.

[v3man]

According to a list in the July 2010 British Railways Illustrated 60022 was used on the Elizabethan in 1953/56/57 and 1961. So, as there is an English Electric diesel Cl.40 or Cl.37 visible just to the right of the loco I would suggest this picture must have been taken in 1961.

[60800]

Thank you very much. Confusion quelled

[Yorkshire Exile]

I belive Mallard worked the last steam hauled down Elizabethan on 9th September 1961. Thus the previous day it is possible she would have worked the up train and that could well be the subject of the photograph.

[JASd17]

'Mallard' has overhead cable warning flashes and is equipped with AWS, so the picture is from the early 1960s. In Yeadon's Register there is a photo of 60022 at Grantham, dated July 1960, it has no warning flashes. So 1961 may well be correct. Because of differences in the brake systems Peppercorn Pacifics could not be paired with the corridor tenders, required for the non-stop services.

John