A4 4492, NYMR Autumn Steam Gala

[majormagna]

The black fives barely manage 5mph!

Bit harsh there Blackout! The 5's do well enough, though you may be happy to hear that once, while still in BR Green, Green Arrow left Grosmont 5 minutes late, and arrived at Goathland 3 minutes early! (Could Mr Barker have been at the helm?)

As I said, the Black 5s do well, after all the standard 4s do it well (just). Speaking of this, if/when the J27 ever gets overhauled, how much use will it be on the NYMR without double-heading? Saying that, would be perfect to see it paired up with 29 again!

[60044]

I don't believe that NR has banned pacifics from the Grosmont-Whitby section of the Esk Valley line. 60007 did a trial working to Whitby a couple of years ago, but the owners were concerned about the damage that might be done to the engine and tender by the very sharp curves at Whitby station. The Cartazzi trucks on the back of the loco and on the tender were the cause for concern, I believe. I think the NYMR management is hoping that the different design and 6-wheel tender on 34101 will allow it to work to Whitby when it returns to traffic, probably in 2013.

The problem with the 9F arises from the raised checkrails on post-steam era designs of points found at some locations on NR. It is not thought that there are any of these on the EVL, so it is possible that an application will be made to run it there once it returns to traffic following the boiler overhaul that is due in a year or two. With the possibility that the NYMR may reinstate platform 2 at Whitby for its own use (and doing the work itself) it will be in control of the type of pointwork that its trains traverse between Grosmont & Whitby, at least until a passing loop gets built at some intermediate location.

Checkrails on ordinary track aren't a problem. I would think that most of the ones that are in place were there when "Evening Star" ran over the line in the 1980s.

[Blink Bonny]

I'd love to see a GW castle try and tackle the ascent to Goathland from Grosmont with the full Whitby set. The black fives barely manage 5mph!

Which black 5 would this be, pray? Of the preserved 5s, 4767 is the best managing 2 coaches over the third best, 5428. The second best? Ian Riley's 45407, the best of the conventional 5s. 45212 is, I understand, 1 coach less than 5428 but then she still has that endearing "dead" spot that she had in the early days on the Worth Valley - left hand engine, front dead centre.

I've done it once on the footplate, many years ago with the Stephenson engine which had to be eased to comply with the line limit with 6 on!

[60044]

A Whitby set is either 5 or 7 coaches, and any of the NYMR's front line locos can haul them at line speed under normal circumstances (and are expected to do so), from Standard 4 76079 upwards. If a Black 5 was reduced to 5mph it was probably for other reasons - poor railhead conditions or perhaps the loco not steaming well or priming. There certainly isn't two coaches worth of difference between the Black 5s in normal service.

[majormagna]

Personally I hope, and hear me out here, I know it SEEMS blasphemous, but I hope it's a GWR loco of some kind. Two reasons:

1- We'd have at least one loco from each of the Big Four.
2- We can finally show people that us Northerners got loco design right!

Looks like I got my wish, Foxcote Manor is to be the surprise visitor!

[60800]

Well, to quell the controvercy of sorts, the information about the A4, the black fives and the 9F was told to me by the senoir guard on the Moorland Explorer. What he said is that network rail do not allow pacifics and flangless loco's to run to Whitby due to ONE bend, which they claim pacifics will damage and the 9F will derail on

As for the black fives on the ascent into Goathland from Grosmont, I was not mocking them, as they are one of the few non- LNER types that I admire. It was 44767 with her Stephenson valve gear and due to the amount of people booked on the train, an extra coach was added to the Whitby set, thus she struggled quite a bit in addition to what she usually does.

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Well, considering that 44767 is the best of the preserved black 5s, that must have been one heavy load!

[majormagna]

Turns out 4492 isn't coming to the Gala, something to do with a failed brake test I heard, could someone elighten me?

[Atlantic 3279]

If that is correct, I simply won't bother going. There are few enough LNER locos on offer at the NYMR at present, without the loss of the one that has in effect become the headliner for this autumn's gala. To my parochial mind, the whole point of the NYMR is that it is an ex-LNER line and needs to run ex-LNER locos and trains to have true appeal. It isn't cheap for me to attend, so things have to be "right" to justify it.
What a disappointment this might be - on a par with the super-spring-gala a couple of years ago, when I was looking forward no end to seeing Green Arrow when I could actually go - for the second weekend, only to discover that it had literally died after (did some say harsh?) use during the first weekend

[majormagna]

To my parochial mind, the whole point of the NYMR is that it is an ex-LNER line and needs to run ex-LNER locos and trains to have true appeal.

That's a fair point, however, if every ex-LNER line wanted to run only LNER (and its constituent) designs, it wouldn't work. There are less than 60 such locomotives preserved, and a large number of which are not in service, and won't be for the forseeable future. If you think about it, I don't think there are any Ex-LNER locos preserved that ran on the Whitby-Malton stretch regularly, aside from the B1 and D49. (Any others?)

As a child of the '90s I feel that, especially with issues the NYMR has had recently, any steam is good (Of course I like diesels too, just not as much). I'm still looking forward to Foxcote Manor, I don't see enough Western locos as it is (Yes, heresy here; but I don't care).

Yes, I'm bummed out that 4492 won't be appearing, it hasn't been (officially) ruled out that it won't be visiting for the Wartime Weekend; but that's just wishful thinking at this point.

We will also have:

Appearance of NER snowplough No 18, recently restored by the NYMR York Area Group. This will be run with an engine through Grosmont station
Demonstration of a steam breakdown crane at Grosmont MPD on Sunday 2nd
Regular display of engines at Pickering station between trains.

Definately looking forward to seeing the 'plough moving, hopefully it will be paired with the Q6 for a bit. The breakdown crane demonstration sounds interesting too; perhaps a boiler lift?

[Atlantic 3279]

We shall have to differ on steam preservation philosophy. I would very strongly prefer the NYMR to be run with at least a VERY strong, or almost exclusive, LNER (or Eastern Region)flavour, in much the same way that I'd expect to see little but LMS at Butterley, and almost pure GWR at Didcot or (to a lesser extent maybe) at Torbay.
Only as a desperate last resort do I want to see GWR locos on the NYMR, and those brown and cream Mk1 coaches ought to go into LNER tourist livery, or vinyl mock teak (as suggested by Coachmann on a nearby thread). Even if the LNER flavour has to be somewhat "contrived" or artificial, I'd prefer that to the "wrong" flavour. Ex-LMS intrusions should be carefully restricted too. The only foreigners that are to my mind "harmless" are from the Southern, which was never really a rival of the LNER for either traffic or prestige.
This will be the second NYMR gala in as many years that I have ignored as being of no relevance, which is a big shame compared to some absolutely glorious previous years. Last year I went to the GC instead, which was by comparison almost "awash" with the right locos.

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

I count myself very fortunate. In terms of accuracy, the Severn Valley (now my "Local" as it were) should be wall-to-wall GWR. On my first visit, I managed to ride behind all-LNER locos AND in the teaks! My second visit was wall-to-wall LMS!

But I do agree with both Atlantic and majormagna here. Yes, it would be lovely to see the NYMR run wall-to-wall LNER stuff but can it happen? Anyway, if you can't have a B1 then a Black 5 is, to me, a more than worthy substitute.

[60044]

Next year will see a much stronger LNER flavour on the NYMR with the return of 61264, and at some point in the year the teak train should be extended by the addition of Thompson TK 1623. I think there may also be some visitors planned for the spring gala.

Whilst I agree with everything that has been said about the NYMR being a former LNER line, it is necessary to face reality and appreciate that the LNER is poorly represented in preservation so at any one time there are barely enough LNER engines in working order to run an NYMR gala timetable without recourse to black 5s etc. - and that's before thinking about dealing with the loco owners to get them there!

I suspect that many of those who come to the ASG are there for the sight of the Moors in autumn colours and the sight and sound of locos working hard up the bank. Arguably, if it was all-LNER it might not attract parochial supporters of other railways. One thing is sure, gala weekends of any description are expensive to stage. Boycott this one because you don't like the line up and you may well be giving ammunition to those at the railwaywho maintain that such events are more trouble than they are worth, and killing off any hope of a future LNER gala.

[Bryan]

Definately looking forward to seeing the 'plough moving, hopefully it will be paired with the Q6 for a bit. The breakdown crane demonstration sounds interesting too; perhaps a boiler lift?

My plough is down to be doing runpasts in Grosmont station. It should if all has gone well today move to Grosmont today for the weekend. I am hoping that it will be parked up somewhere accessible between runs so that I can show people around it if they want. There was an awful lot of interest in seeing it at Kirkby Stephen the other week.
It will probably be paired up with the Std 4 76079 which is booked for station pilot work as it is meant to be on light duties.

To me any steam at all is better than none and we have to be realistic about is achievable.
Yes, it would be nice to have all NER, LNER etc but we have what we have and have to make the best of it.

[majormagna]

Well as a (fairly long time) supporter of the NYMR, I must admit there has been a lot of issues where locomotives have been secured 'last minute' rather than in advance, as most other lines do.

And this year, in my opinion, has had the best events so far, normally the Spring steam gala is... lacking something. However this year, what with the 175 celebrations, the Spring gala was one of the best galas I've seen on the NYMR, rivalling a number of Autumn ones.

On another note, I like the fact that the NYMR has a variety of stock, as I can't travel too far, and would, to be honest, get bored of seeing nothing but LNER locos (Which would, most likely, be stuck in BR livery).

Mk1's in imitation teak... no, just doesn't sit right with me. The current chocolate and cream stock matches the Pullman set, so I say keep it. Although many people dislike it, I'm glad the Moors has a couple of Blue and Grey carriages, there aren't many in that livery in the North-East.

If the NYMR 'got rid of' all non LNER (or BR North-Eastern region) locos, at the moment, we'd be stuck with the Q6, and nothing else. Running back to the "Less than 60 LNER locos left" thing, of the ones that are in running condition, how many would be able to haul an 8 coach train up a 1 in 49? And out of those, how many owners would allow the loco to do that?


Regarding 76079, I'm still not too sure about it, I know it will be stuck with light duties, but I'm worried it may damage it in it's current condition.