Keep A Skill Alive?

[Mickey]

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[StevieG]

" Very interesting Richard the 'tele codes' for 20th Mile Down & Digswell.

No tele code for 20th Mile UP box?. I presume the UP box closed before the DOWN box?. I always presumed that both UP & DOWN boxes closed at the sametime?. .... "

Not necessarily Micky. It could depend on which box was connected on which circuit. Remember that there were roughly parallel (in length) circuits "YF-HT" and "AU-HT" (respectively, Wood Green No.3 and Wood Green No.4, to Hitchin Telegr.Office)?
Each of these circuit's traffic (as far as train reporting goes, at least) carried predominantly 'Down' or 'Up' train messages, respectively, so some 'one-side' boxes, or perhaps some which couldn't switch trains between lines (e.g., Marshmoor) might have only been on one or the other circuit (or neither), rather than on both.
Other circuits definitely had a local nature (not the ultra-locals, like FK-GY; Fins.Park 1 to 5), - but e.g. KC-BN (Kings X Telegr.Office to New Barnet North, 'calling' at most places), while others were more long distance/principal points only (like KC-FO; KX Teleg. to Eastfield).

[StevieG]

I now have made contact with an NRM representative who seems really keen (time permitting) to flesh out the sometimes scant info. that they have on some items in the collection (many hidden or barely visible, e.g. lever frames), and not only on the 'what is it?' that they possess, but the 'how was it used' as well.

[Mickey]

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[R. pike]

One technical feature of telegraph circuits, which may explain why there were so many, was they could be superimposed on telephone trunk line or even between phantom telephone circuits already created between multiple trunk lines. It does make them hard to spot on paperwork in some cases.

[StevieG]

Interesting Stevie, i always presumed that 20th mile up & down s/boxes both closed around the time that Welwyn Garden City s/box openend circa 1926.

Well they may have done. I just meant that a telegraph circuit card listing one but not the other doesn't necessarily mean that they closed at different dates.

[Mickey]

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[R. pike]

With most of the instruments installed now thoughts turn to what else is needed. The LNER instruction pamphlet states there should be a code book nearby for a start. A circuit card is also essential but what else? Does anyone have any photos of telegraph instruments in use that shows the paraphernalia associated with them? I probably wont go as far as providing ink wells Etc but i am looking at getting some message pads made up.

[geofrancis]

As I remember from my days in the Telegraph Office on Doncaster Station the Clerks sat at their instruments and had little bits of tin attached to either side of the needle giving off two different sounds, so they did,nt need to watch the needle, they read the message from the two different noises. (example ding for a dot and dong for a dash).
Geofrancis

[hq1hitchin]

As I remember from my days in the Telegraph Office on Doncaster Station the Clerks sat at their instruments and had little bits of tin attached to either side of the needle giving off two different sounds, so they did,nt need to watch the needle, they read the message from the two different noises. (example ding for a dot and dong for a dash).
Geofrancis

Do you remember Lavinia in the Grantham Telegraph, Geoff?

She seemed to work permanent nights, unless her roster coincided with ours? One of the unsung railway heroines, she was a pleasure to work with. In those far off days, on nights at KX we couldn't speak to anywhere north of Grantham unless we went via the 'Grantham night switch'

[StevieG]

As I remember from my days in the Telegraph Office on Doncaster Station the Clerks sat at their instruments and had little bits of tin attached to either side of the needle giving off two different sounds, so they did,nt need to watch the needle, they read the message from the two different noises. (example ding for a dot and dong for a dash).
Geofrancis

It is my recollection that, as far as signal box instruments were concerned, by the late '60s by which time the system seemed only to be used for train reporting messages, in around fifty boxes in the southern part of the ex-GNR main line (& Hertford 'loop') the higher sounder note was that on the right (representing the 'dash') and the lower on the left, (the 'dot').
I'm also pretty sure I never saw an instrument without sounders of some sort, presumably of some type as you mention, and as their sounds were usually still fairly quiet, almost without exception some sort of improvised amplification was in place ; usually EITHER the lid of a round-cornered rectangular large tobacco tin folded almost in half and wedged between the bottom of the sounders and the bottom edge of the opening in the wooden case which surrrounded the green faceplate, OR (a little less common) a circular tobacco tin (sans lid) carefully pushed straight onto the sounders so that it became wedged there, in contact with the top and bottom of both sounders, but carefully not pushed all the way home so that the needle could still move side-to-side, else the needle would become trapped and rendered motionless.
Although I never met a signalman in those times who mentioned being able to sight-read 'the needle' rather than read by sound, some spoke of individuals of an older generation who could use both methods, and also of some who seemed to have no trouble sending a message on one instrument while reading and mentally noting one on another circuit, and at the same time remaining fully aware of any passing train movements and bell signals being received on the signalling equipment!

[thesignalman]

It is my recollection that, as far as signal box instruments were concerned, by the late '60s by which time the system seemed only to be used for train reporting messages, in around fifty boxes in the southern part of the ex-GNR main line (& Hertford 'loop') the higher sounder note was that on the right (representing the 'dash') and the lower on the left, (the 'dot').
I'm also pretty sure I never saw an instrument without sounders of some sort, presumably of some type as you mention, and as their sounds were usually still fairly quiet, almost without exception some sort of improvised amplification was in place ; usually EITHER the lid of a round-cornered rectangular large tobacco tin folded almost in half and wedged between the bottom of the sounders and the bottom edge of the opening in the wooden case which surrrounded the green faceplate, OR (a little less common) a circular tobacco tin (sans lid) carefully pushed straight onto the sounders so that it became wedged there, in contact with the top and bottom of both sounders, but carefully not pushed all the way home so that the needle could still move side-to-side, else the needle would become trapped and rendered motionless.
Although I never met a signalman in those times who mentioned being able to sight-read 'the needle' rather than read by sound, some spoke of individuals of an older generation who could use both methods, and also of some who seemed to have no trouble sending a message on one instrument while reading and mentally noting one on another circuit, and at the same time remaining fully aware of any passing train movements and bell signals being received on the signalling equipment!

Neither Kings Cross nor Cemetery used amplification, as I remember.

There was another method, a piece of zinc (not sure where it came from, but several boxes seemed to have these so it probably came from a dubious railway source), folded into a zig-zag shape and wedged below the sounders. The round tobacco time was the most effective, though. Telegraph Office instruments had bells, which could be switched on and off.

John

[52H]

Hi all
I started work early fifties at stella gill in the north east. There was a telegraph in the office and it used to click away madly ,no one knew how to use it but i was told it was connected to Sunderland shipping office.It was disconnected in the middle fifties.

Yours truly 52H

[StevieG]

Thanks to all for the various bits of information.
And to John, thanks also : I didn't come across many instances of the roughly-corrugated zinc method, and overlooked including mention of it in my previous post.

One case of signal box S/N telegraph equipment where home-spun amplification appeared not to be common was that of the telegraph concentrator : Similar in function to the telephone concentrator, where a signal box was connected on more than two or three circuits, it was common for a concentrator to be provided, encompassing 'read-only' needles for all the necessary circuits for the location. This was necessaily accompanied by a solitary sending instrument which could be switched into any one of the concentrator's circuits by use of the relevant 'telephone key'-type switches on the concentrator.

[thesignalman]

Thanks to all for the various bits of information.
And to John, thanks also : I didn't come across many instances of the roughly-corrugated zinc method, and overlooked including mention of it in my previous post.

I discovered yesterday upon digging it out that one of my own instruments has one of these - doesn't say a lot for my memory!

One case of signal box S/N telegraph equipment where home-spun amplification appeared not to be common was that of the telegraph concentrator : Similar in function to the telephone concentrator, where a signal box was connected on more than two or three circuits, it was common for a concentrator to be provided, encompassing 'read-only' needles for all the necessary circuits for the location. This was necessaily accompanied by a solitary sending instrument which could be switched into any one of the concentrator's circuits by use of the relevant 'telephone key'-type switches on the concentrator.

The aforementioned Cemetery was indeed a box with a concentrator.

You could also connect circuits through for special messages with these concentrators.

John