Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

[Bill Bedford]

Perhaps, you would also like to tell us how the motion for the middle cylinder could be made to clear the front axle. This was a problem that Doncaster singularly failed to solve on the B17s. The solutions that Doncaster did come up with were to either restict the drivers to 5'8" as on the K3s or to heavily cone the boiler to raise the smokebox above the middle cylinder as on the pacifics .

[Atlantic 3279]

See, I knew it would annoy at least one purist. My very roughly cobbled together previous drawing does not really show the squatness of the necessary LNER-gauge boiler mountings (so let's say mine are shown to GN gauge or thereabouts), but by pitching the boiler at 9' 3", compared to 9' 4"1/2 on the pacifics, the base of the smokebox if kept to 5' 9" diameter would come out at the same level as that of the 6' box on the pacifics. With the same front end beneath, there would therefore be clearance.

Perhaps this new rendition shows clearance under the smokebox a little more convincingly:

And to save potential discussion of the question of space for a deep enough grate and ashpan over the rear coupled axle, here's how it might look with the boiler barrel shortened, to bring the firebox forwards - but not so much as to leave no room for the middle big-end. As the later versions of the O2 boiler as applied to the rebuilt O4 variants, the B17 and B1 boilers, and possibly the original large atlantic boiler too, all were shorter barrel relatives of this boiler, I presume the shorter barrel would not introduce hopeless thermal inefficiency?
Are we getting happier with this loco now?

[Bill Bedford]

See, I knew it would annoy at least one purist.

Not purist at all, but if you are going to go down a fantasist route, they have to be fantasies with engineering integrity, otherwise you could just as easily have 6' 8" wheels at 6' 6" centres.
A purist would say that Gresley didn't have it in him to produce a practical 4-6-0.

[Atlantic 3279]

they have to be fantasies with engineering integrity, otherwise you could just as easily have 6' 8" wheels at 6' 6" centres.

Fair point Bill, so just to show that I am thinking about this rather than merely fantasizing without regard for any of the limits imposed by reality, another possible need for modification occurs to me: Do the smokebox and saddle have to be longer, as per the A1/A3, in order to accommodate the steam passages to the steeply inclined middle cylinder which has to be set further to the rear than the outside pair of cylinders?

Somewhat thus:

Of course, if the further reduction of tube length to only around 12', as in the K3s, were for some reason undesirable, then the cab and firebox could return to the original position further aft. Plenty of 4-6-0s with tall coupled wheels actually had the firebox astride one of the coupled axles, without critical consequences for ashpan capacity and draught to the grate, so bearing in mind the 9' 3" pitch of the boiler the arrangement ought not to be too objectionable!

[Bill Bedford]

You mean something like this?

Note that the boiler is coned by 3" !

[Atlantic 3279]

Interesting Bill. Whilst I was already aware of that outline diagram, which appears in RCTS 10A, I was being careful not to merely copy a scheme that was not worked out until a decade and a half after my envisaged time. Yes, the boiler is coned as you say, but I believe the notes I've read on that sheme elsewhere describe the boiler as a shortened narrow-firebox variant of the full-size pacific boiler - RCTS 10A however the description is as you say, of the whole barrel coned by 3". I presume that either way the smokebox and front of the 5' 9" barrel's cladding would be full 6' diameter, hence the pitch is again shown as 9' 4"1/2, with the middle cylinder shown in the pacific position, inclined 1 in 8 high above the second axle of the bogie. It still appears to me therefore that a 5' 9" diameter smokebox (as would suit an O2 or C1 5' 6" dia boiler barrel) pitched at 9' 3 would also clear the middle cylinder arrangements. It's interesting to be reminded of that 1936 scheme though, featuring re-use of the pacific layout of cylinders instead of the B17 arrangement. You might say that it also tends to confirm the need for the long smokebox. The firebox additionally sits well-astride the rear axle, not merely down in the space between axles.

[Atlantic 3279]

I've now found the link to what ought to have been the proper place for my imaginary 4-6-0 theme:
lner-locomotives-that-never-were-t1439.html
and I see that some more relevant material has appeared at
proposed-4-6-0-design-t5331.html
so the arguments about technical details can now spread far and wide.

[Blink Bonny]

On a totally different subject, I received a parcel from Graeme this AM containing a very nice set of resin castings.

I feel a new topic coming on...

[Dave]

I've got to agree, I got some of Graeme's castings the other day, they are very good.

[S.A.C. Martin]

60500 has arrived at Copley Hill and has been christened accordingly! Many thanks to Graeme for an absolutely amazing job. I am still debating the final livery choice, but it has to be said - it looks good as an apple green 60500, doesn't it...!

[mick b]

Even better with LNER and full livery Superb job well done Graeme

[Atlantic 3279]

Ta Mick.

A little story: I've just overcome my despair at seeing items that I might have liked going out of my rational price range on eBay, as in the end I had to laugh almost uncontrollably at the willingness of bidders to pay almost £70 total including postage for the body and chassis of a dismantled Bachmann A2. Shame the body didn't stick at 99p, as it had done for several days. I might then have done both an A2/3 and an A2/2 body for my next conversion......

Nice picture of ET in its new home there Simon.

[mick b]

A little story: I've just overcome my despair at seeing items that I might have liked going out of my rational price range on eBay, as in the end I had to laugh almost uncontrollably at the willingness of bidders to pay almost £70 total including postage for the body and chassis of a dismantled Bachmann A2. Shame the body didn't stick at 99p, as it had done for several days. I might then have done both an A2/3 and an A2/2 body for my next conversion......




I deleted viewing at £30 crazy price and far from the first time, I have seen the same daft bidding even on current retail items.

I still need a A2/2

[Atlantic 3279]

Nothing much new to report on the modelling front, but here are some glimpses of the layout after a quick tidy-up, and some pictures of my "more prestigious" LNER locos at last in residence in a display "cabinet" of sorts, after my eBay clear-out of its previous contents. Now I can actually SEE my locos all the time, AND keep the dust off them when the glazed front is fitted to the display case. Luxury indeed.....

[S.A.C. Martin]

Beautiful collection Graeme. That reminds me, I must watch your video of the 4-8-2 in motion again - it's a very odd thing seeing the extra drivers under a streamlined body, and yet it looks so elegant and right at the same time.