New builds missing a trick?

[coachmann]

Why anybody would want to even think about building an ungainly, ugly, frame bending, mediocre pacific as an A2/2 is a mystery to me....

I thought these kind of club bore sentiments had died out. It has always puzzled me why such things would bother a railway modeller. It puzzled me even more when a person is too young to remember said locomotives. The only Thompsons I saw were the A2-3's and they looked magnificent to my eye, but does anyone really care.

[richard]

Perceived beauty and looks count for a lot - even modellers who try to get things as accurate as possible may choose a prototype so that they can run their favourite locomotives. Such determinations are always going to be partially arbitrary.

It will always be easier to create a new-build that looks good - for the same reason it is easier to raise money to save an endangered raptor or panda, than it is to save an endangered slug.



Richard

[Blink Bonny]

Thing is, beauty (or otherwise) is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Not long ago I said to Atlantic 3279 that an A2/3 isn't an engine I'd have chosen to model. Now I've got 4470 Great Northern on what passes for my mind.

Is a Thompson Pacific ugly? How would I know? I've never seen one in the flesh but then I thought that a d/c and deflectors never suited an A3 till I saw Scotsman at the Severn Valley. OK, the dark green less so but at least it was authentic. Maybe when I've finished Great Northern I'll have an idea.

(Mrs BB says - Its time for his medication again. Sorry, lads.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Just coming back to this thread - as far as I can make out, if the A2/2 were to built, then the following would be common between the A2/2 and a potential P2, and the components used in the construction of the A1, Tornado:

1. V shaped Cab and associated fittings (A1)
2. Rear cartazzi (A1, P2)
3. Locomotive frames up to the second set of drivers (P2)
4. The castings for the six driving wheels (P2)
5. Coupling rods (P2)
6. Boiler (A1, suggested for new P2)
7. Kylchap Arrangement (A1, P2)
8. Tender (A1, suggested for P2)
9. Standard LNER pattern buffers (P2)
10. Connecting rods (P2)

That's quite a lot of engine, forgetting of course that the possibility of using the same design of front bogie as that used on Tornado adds another tick to the list. Of course, then you need the smokebox, front frames, cylinders, eccentrics, walschaerts valve gear, and probably more I have forgot, but that seems to be at least 50% of the locomotive built out of common (or intended to be common) components and probably a bit more besides, if you accept the compromises of building a replica for modern day running.

[S.A.C. Martin]

My apologies for double posting, first and foremost.

Silly question of the day: is there anyone who be remotely interested in a new build Thompson Pacific? I keep coming back to this fact and finding that while I might daydream about a new A2/2 or whatever, the substantial fanbase would not be there, as it has been with Tornado, perhaps.

So my second set of apologies for what might be (should be!) considered a daft question!

[Dave]

Nup, count me out for a Tompson pacific rebuild, I think a more practicle wheelbase loco would be better, like a B1 etc. that would have good route availability and appeal to the many preserved railways.

[richard]

Well there are already two B1s in preservation. A Thompson B2 is a bit obscure, but there's already a new build project to build one and a half B17s...


Richard

[V4Victory]

What myths are these ? they we're less effective but more p'way freindly than p2's...sure they we're ugly, but lets give the guy a little benefit of the doubt for a second the Rebuilt P2's V2's etc we're probably mechanical experiments built from existing 'components'

Does any one know what the new Thompson A1 Would have actually looked like ? might have looked a bit better if the engine was designed around its drive, probably a bit more like an LMS(PARDON) Pacific
The most important and expensive component of any new build is the boiler, which is i believe is near enough common to all three designs but i cant see there being much prospect of ordering two or three of these at the same time to get a 'bit of a discount'

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Have to say 'Simierski' has some 'guts' to come out and say anything about a new build Thompson Pacific, but I'll also come out the 'closet' and say I would be delighted to to hear that one was being built, what an opportunity to lay a few of the deriders of these locos on there backsides when a Thompson Pacific takes on Stoke Bank with 15 on, what a glorious sight it would be, Bring it on

Please don't forget, his Pacific's could still beat the pants off of most the 'other' companies locos.

manna

[S.A.C. Martin]

Re the point about the boiler - absolutely, getting the capital for three groups to order identical boilers at the same time would be extremely difficult, if not nigh on impossible. But for smaller components - buffers, piping, lubricators, maybe even larger components such as driving wheels - ordering in triplicate would bring the price down for each build respectively.

The question is whether or not the backing for an A2/2 would be there, as it seems to be potentially for two P2s. Of the three builds, no.2001, no.2007, and my speculative no.506, say, the difficulty would be in finding the interest for what would doubtless be described as "yet another LNER Pacific", be it in the press or enthusiast circles. Yes, there probably are better holes to fill in preservation, but only two Thompson locomotives survive in preservation today (I believe?)

A Thompson Pacific - and one that could in theory share so many components, derived from the A1 new build and the P2 new builds to come, would fill in that gap between Gresley and Peppercorn for LNER enthusiasts which looks decidedly bare in preservation. A class 7 Pacific would be a decent mainline performer, and if certain compromises were made in the same vein as the mooted P2s and Tornado (such as reducing the overall height to 13ft above the rails), it would be a "go anywhere" machine for the mainline too.

It's worth thinking about it and debating it now, because the P2 projects have yet to cut metal (though I believe the DP2LT has ordered their frames?), and with careful planning in the design and money raising stages, we could potentially have three, instead of two locomotives, and a further gap filled in the history of the ECML.

I'm certainly putting my head above the parapet today! Tin hat on...!

Do remember this is all speculative, and one hell of a pipe dream, I am sure!

But if you can build a Peppercorn A1 from scratch, rebuild the Welsh Highland Railway, and build a new steam railmotor for the 21st Century, then you can do anything, surely...!!!

(With the obvious caveat of interest and financial backing...!)

[Coboman]

but there's already a new build project to build one and a half B17s...
Richard

Do you have any news on this project? Since the project engineer Kim Malyon died 14 months ago, nothing seems to be happening. No news or anything.

[richard]

No I don't know - and I didn't know he died.

Could explain why the NBL group newsletters concentrate on their repatriation efforts?

Richard