Welwyn Garden City

[Mickey]

Ok Stevie thanks.

[Mickey]

According to the WELWYN TIMES on line edition the footbridge at WGC station was damaged by fire last week (July 2011) causing the footbridge to be closed between the up line platforms and the east-side entrance at Nabisco's factory much to the dismay of the locals who use the bridge as a short cut to and from the town centre.

The footbridge was due to re-open today (20/07/11) but so far hasn't although hopefully it should be in the next day or two?.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

And while we're on the subject of Welwyn. First, nice to hear that the footbridge is to reopen, hope it was'nt to badly damaged.

Second, going back to the Wheat trains, we've always talked about these trains and there running in the late 60's and 70's, I've done a bit of research and Nabisco's opened in I think 1924 or 1926, was there Wheat trains in the 1920's and 30's and if so were did the Wheat come from, Temple Mills wasn't around ?? did it come from March/Whitemoor ??

Was there a third generation of wagons when BR went to Air brakes in the late 70's and 80's ??

manna

[Mickey]

G'Day manna, i can't answer your question direct but that was always an interesting little set up they had at Nabisco's factory with regards to the railway i always thought.

I first came across the railway around 1967/68, in those days there was 3-roads leading into a single long road head shunt to the south of the factory, they also had there own 0-6-0 diesel shunter (later on it was replaced by a 0-4-0 diesel shunter) but the WGC B.R. 350hp diesel shunter would go to and from the sidings to collect the grain wagons.

When i was Welwyn Garden City s/box between 1972-74 there would occasionally be some fairly long trains originating from Nabisco's sidings every now and then.

[Andy W]

Yes, that traffic did go AB in the late 1970's. There used to be a working off Willesden in the early hours that came down the incline at KX, dropped the Kelloggs off at Marshmoor, went to WGC, dropped off there and then away to Offord to drop off & pick up any ferrys from the downside siding and then right away to P'Boro where the train terminated.

The up working used to be LE off FP (after the evening peak)to Marshmoor, pick the vans up, run round at WGC and then to Willesden Brent via Dalston.

The AB van traffic for Rowntrees at Wood Green was off a Dringhouses to London train that used to stop specially to drop off and set down.

[thesignalman]

The up working used to be LE off FP (after the evening peak)to Marshmoor, pick the vans up, run round at WGC and then to Willesden Brent via Dalston.

Have a number stuck in my mind for 4M44 for this one! I remember running round it at Dalston many times but cannot remember the Marshmoor-bound service using the North London Incline. Funny how some things stick in your mind whilst others don't. I also remember dealing with it at Willesden but can't remember the workings of the traffic north of Willesden now.

John

[StevieG]

...was the Down working perchance 4E43?

[Mickey]

I believe 4M44 was the Kelloggs from Marshmoor.

There was a 7B66 ex-Kings Cross Goods yard for Huntingdon that use to 'knock off' the rear end of the train the brake van and about 6-8 mineral wagons of coal in WGC up yard sidings that ran during the week days that departed KX Goods yard around 02:30hrs the train went forward from WGC as 6B66 it also it dropped off some vans at Hitchin & st Neots.

There was also a 7B06 (i think?) that use to depart Temple Mills sometime around 05:00hrs bound for WGC during the week days.

There was also an 'evening goods' that departed WGC up yard sidings around 19:00-19:30hrs bound for Whitemoor yard during the week day evenings i seem to recall in the early 1970s.

As if you didn't have enough to do dealing with terminating trains at WGC at that time of the 'evening peak' that had to be shunted onto the down main line then crossed over back into the up platforms as well as main line expresses as well, having to deal with the Whitemoor goods that had to do a W-SHUNT to get out of the up yard and onto the up slow line then propel back along the up slow behind the dolly then the 'right away' down the main line towards Welwyn north was more work to do

There was a fair bit of 'lever bashing' going on in WGC box around that time of the evening

''Happy days''

[Andy W]

Got my YB for 1979 out of the loft last night. The down AB working was 6E92, 0210 off Willesden Sudbury, 0300 at KXFT Terminal GF. That was the AB replacement for 7B66, it would seem.

4M44 was indeed the Marshmoor starter John and the Dringhouses to Temple Mills was 6C80 and that used to drop vans off at Hitchin (for Letchworth) as well as dropping off the Rowntrees at "Bounds Green".

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Thanks for the information, gentlemen, it's just that I've been buying up some Dublo/Wrenn/ whoever! grain wagons to recreate the Welwyn wheat train, but working on my Edgware layout, and just wondering what would have pulled it in steam days ??


manna

[Mickey]

Probably not news to most on here that live a long the G.N. suburban route out of Kings Cross but on a recent visit to WGC station in August 2012 i noticed that the station platforms have all been re-numbered from the way i recall them being numbered back in the late 1960s & 1970s.

The 'Luton line' platform that use to be platform no.1 is now platform no.4.
The down slow line platform that use to be platform no.2 is now platform no.3.
The up slow line platform that use to be platform no.3 is now platform no.2.
The 'Hertford or back platform' that use to be platform no.4 is now platform no.1.

It also looks like that it is not only at WGC that the station platforms have been re-numbered a long the suburban route out of Kings Cross although the Finsbury Park station platforms still appear to be numbered in the same sequence (i think?).

Also possibly worth noting is the number of roads that are left in the up yard at WGC has now been reduced from approximately 8-10 roads in the early/mid-1970s to 4-5 roads in 2008 although the number of roads left now was probably reduced sometime well before 2008?.

[giner]

It's the same at Stevenage, Micky.

Up slow - platform 1
Up fast - platform 2
Down fast - platform 3
Down slow - platform 4

Whether that's been a recent change or not, I don't know. I wonder if it's a standard layout all over the ECML.

[Dave Cockle]

Generally platform numbering is, running up road, One for the first platform on the left then reading left to right progressively higher numbers.

St Neots still hangs on to it's old numbering system with the numbers being the opposite way round ie Up Slow, (Platform 4).

When I was working for wagn, as "Operations Inspector, I became aware that St Neots due to be completely resigned with wagn branding replacing NSE signage. I formally requested that the opportunity should be taken to change the platform numbering at St Neots to bring it in line with the other stations on the route. My request sat in an "In Tray" and when I chased the matter up was told
"It's too late, the contractors drawings have already been made out to the Status Quo".

A missed opportunity.

Dave Cockle

[Mickey]

Hello Dave, that story reminds me of a signalman (sorry signaller?) on the North London line back in the mid-1990s that suggested in writing to management that because the NLL generally runs a long an east-west parallel from Stratford to Willesden and vice versa and because of a change in line designation from UP to DOWN and DOWN to UP lines at Camden Road wouldn't it be easier (for everyone?) just to call the road from Willesden to Stratford EASTBOUND and the road from Stratford to Willesden WESTBOUND?. I don't think anything came of this suggestion up until the time i left Camden Road s/box in 2004?.

Also this same signalman much to the amusement of some signalmen back in 1988/89 had instituted the 'phonetic alphabet' while talking to other signalmen when passing on train headcodes a good 10 years before it was taken up and became 'mandatory speak' by Railtrack then Network Rail!.

The reference to 2008 with reference to the up yard at WGC is that was my first visit back to WGC at that point in time since 1989 the year of my last visit.

[DaveGN]

Also possibly worth noting is the number of roads that are left in the up yard at WGC has now been reduced from approximately 8-10 roads in the early/mid-1970s to 4-5 roads in 2008 although the number of roads left now was probably reduced sometime well before 2008?.

There were 7 roads in the Welwyn Up Yard until 2007/2008. There are now 5. The reason that two roads were taken out, was so Tampers and On Track Plant could be stabled there and engineers could then drive their vans directly alongside. This was to make it easier to swap out spare parts and carry out maintenance and servicing.

Road 5 is the longest road and is supposed to be kept clear so that freight's can be run round, but this doesn't always happen!