Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

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S.A.C. Martin

Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Atlantic 3279 wrote:
Not far off readiness for dispatch now Simon, I'll keep you advised.
No problem Graeme, gives me some time to get the money together! :lol: I get paid next week anyway :)
I think selected A2/2s, in the correct era, may be possible without unreasonable extra effort and expense, although the tender presents an extra complication as the rivets have to go unless a tender swap is possible. By the time you've ruled out A2/2s needing a different boiler shape with full V-fronted cab, and correctly catered for little details like beading or smooth sides on cabs and tenders, there's not a lot of choice of locos and dates.
Interesting...could, say, Wolf of Badenoch, 60506, BR green, 1955, be done?
A2/1 presents the problem of the need for A3/V2 boiler shape, full V fronted cab, A2 coupled wheelbase, but frames short at the rear as on the A3s/V2s rather than the Peppercorn locos. My front running plate, sideframe extensions, and method for relocating cylinders and rebuilding valve gear might be applicable, but the rest of the loco would appear to call for parts from two or three RTR models (or two locos plus the cost and trouble of building part of a SE Finecast chassis) which along with all of the adaptations required to make differently sourced parts fit together, would appear to kill any saving compared to building a kit. Bachmann A2 chassis and part of the running plate, combined with a boiler harvested from a spare Hornby A3 body moulding, and A4 or V2 cab from a similar source might just work, but in shortening the overhang behind the Cartazzi axle on the A2 chassis (and running plate) the position and integrity of one of two of the main chassis-body securing screws would be affected.
May as well build a kit, it looks like. :? It does sort of confirm the A2/1 as the poor man's A2 in some respects, though I think they have a certain je ne sais quoi about them, with the V front cab and electric lighting.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

I'm just going to look at the boiler/cab/tender combinations on the A2/2s. In the meantime.......


Although I'm not yet ready to estimate a "fitted and painted" price for my resin A2 to A2/3 conversion parts, which will have to wait until I've done a second (timed) conversion for myself, whenever that is, for those who need only the instructions already posted up on this thread (as I still have to write those out too for any proper "kits" and I'm struggling for time), I can now offer the resin parts only, as "clean 'em up yourself and fit 'em" items, initially for say £35 per set plus postage. Just so that you are in no doubt about what you might get, THERE ARE AREAS OF FLASH, ESPECIALLY IN ONE CAB WINDOW APERTURE AND DOWN THE LEADING EDGE OF THE CAB, THAT REQUIRE PATIENT AND CAREFUL REMOVAL, BUT THE RESIN IS NOT DIFFICULT TO SCRAPE/FILE/SAND. ONE OR TWO SURFACE BUBBLE DEFECTS MAY ALSO NEED A SPOT OF FILLER. But compare the cost and difficulty with a full DJH or PDK kit build and complete paint job......

Please send PM if interested.

Partly in an attempt to be fair to DMR (and others) from whom you can get cast metal versions, I'll only include a resin chimney and/or round dome if specifically requested, and (again) I'll point out that my items will need a bit of cleaning up, the dome in particular having a "lump" on one edge that needs filing out (not as of 15/7/11 as my new dome mould is a better version). Also, if you want the resin chimney, tell me whether you want "plain double stovepipe with added beading" or the later fully lipped cast pattern. I suppose I should also point out, or remind interested parties of the need to obtain separately, and adapt, a set of Comet V2 valve gear for the chassis conversion, and to use some plastikard to make up a new cylinder stretcher plus an insulated base for the motion bracket mounting.
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Simierski wrote:Interesting...could, say, Wolf of Badenoch, 60506, BR green, 1955, be done?
I see the A2/2 options as these:

501 Cock o' the North (after 10/52) and 502 Earl Marischal (after 3/51) can be done by keeping the A2 boiler, cab front, and cab roof. A3 type cabsides with turned-in rear edges and beading must be grafted in, and the tender must lose its rivets, and gain beading plus (possibly) slightly turned in leading edges to the sidesheets. My smoke deflectors are not therefore required, and I'm not sure if you could "harvest" and modify the sides from my A2/3 resin cab or whether another source would be required. A fully lipped cast chimney may be required for later dates. Let's not get into the question of whether the tender wheels need to have spokes....
(As I was later reminded, for those who like things spot-on of possible, there may also have been a difference in the shape and size of the cab spectacles fitted to the final rebuild of 502)

503 Lord President and 504 Mons Meg are NOT attractive options owing to the need to change back to a partly-coned diag 106A boiler and V-front cab which these two retained to the end - unless of course you like even more of a challenge than I do :shock: :?

505 Thane of Fife (from 3/52 to mid 1957) and 506 Wolf of Badenoch again would keep the A2 boiler, cab front and roof but require A4 type straight cabsides without beading, and the tender rivets have to go. Again, I don't know if my resin cab is a suitable donor for the sides.
506 always had the plain chimney with beading, but 505 changed later to the full cast type. BUT, after 9/57 505 had a Thompson diag 117 boiler, and to portray this (in disguise) the long dome has to be moved forward, virtually guaranteeing the need for a full repaint rather than a careful but limited patch painting job.

In each case the sides of the smokebox/saddle are revealed by the lack of large smoke deflectors so would need to be tidied up more than I bothered on the A2/3, but that's not too much of a challenge. Wing plates on top of the smokebox are however required (thin brass in carefully sawn slots in the top of the 'box?) along with bigger "boxy" side bearings on the bogie frames.
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by mick b »

Shame re the A2/2 as I need a LNER as built version :roll: .


Anyone got a kit they want to sell ???
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Okay, I failed miserably to film the A2/3 on Gamston Bank on sunday, owing to incorrect planning (incorrect provision of equipment), but in the unlikely event of me not having fouled up on a further technicality, then the links below may actually take you to dodgy amateur video clips of the loco on running trials around Bardney, my shoddy loft layout :oops: .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR3gjNXHPQs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxza38tLUso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7nMJ8LWxkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33-NzC72P8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-aQtiaH3IM
Last edited by Atlantic 3279 on Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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S.A.C. Martin

Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Atlantic 3279 wrote:Okay, I failed miserably to film the A2/3 on Gamston Bank on sunday, owing to incorrect planning (incorrect provision of equipment), but in the unlikely event of me not having fouled up on a further technicality, then the link below may actually take you to a dodgy amateur video clip of the loco on running trials around Bardney, my shoddy loft layout :oops: .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR3gjNXHPQs
Just commented on the video - both the layout and the locomotive are smashing! :D
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Saint Johnstoun »

To see the loco running makes it even more impressive!
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

:roll: You boys can certainly comment more quickly than I can load 'em up :lol:

Ta!
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by mick b »

A real cracker well done
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Postman Prat »

Can't really say anything that hasn't already been said
Red Hot!!
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S.A.C. Martin

Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Atlantic 3279 wrote: 506 always had the plain chimney with beading, but 505 changed later to the full cast type. BUT, after 9/57 505 had a Thompson diag 117 boiler, and to portray this (in disguise) the long dome has to be moved forward, virtually guaranteeing the need for a full repaint rather than a careful but limited patch painting job.
That's interesting - again, like the A2/3, I'd probably paint it myself. I didn't realize it changed its boiler type after 55, but since I'd want one which would fit somewhere between 1950 and 55, it wouldn't need that modification.
In each case the sides of the smokebox/saddle are revealed by the lack of large smoke deflectors so would need to be tidied up more than I bothered on the A2/3, but that's not too much of a challenge. Wing plates on top of the smokebox are however required (thin brass in carefully sawn slots in the top of the 'box?) along with bigger "boxy" side bearings on the bogie frames.
Hmmm...the cogs are turning...!
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Simon has probably been wondering why I've not yet asked him for money and sent him a loco. Well, in part I was checking that the loco stood up to further handling and scrutiny, also that it passed further running trials, but (perhaps most of all) I wanted to get a standard Bachmann A2, ready for my next conversion attempt, and do a side-by-side comparison of the "mint out of the box" factory item and my long-suffering converted loco.

The ever trusty Royal Mail delivered my A2 from Walton's of Altrincham yesterday. Their's was the best price I could find for a new loco, actually in stock (but 36 hours after agreeing the deal one went on eBay for about 12 quid less, of course.....). I'll try to post pictures later to illustrate some of the highlighted features and differences.

Having "roughly guessed" the original weight of the A2, only after hacking pieces off :oops: , so that I could ballast my converted loco to a similar level for haulage trials, it was interesting today to put the two on the electronic scales.
A2, loco only, weighed 365g (13oz)
A2/3 weighed 395g (14oz), so it looks like my added lead in the front of the boiler and in the firebox more than compensated for the lost weight of the metal front running plate and backhead, but I don't appear to have gone so far as to impose a ridiculous extra burden on the loco's bearings and mechanism.

The A2, as supplied, will be fine for my butchery, but (although it has no doubt been said many times elsewhere) I found several failings of quality-control which would probably be a disappointment for anyone disinclined to do their own trouble shooting, and expecting a spot-on RTR item:

1. An over-oiling slick everywhere around the rear coupled wheels, especially on the left side.
2. Left front bogie wheel pressed way too far onto the axle, to a frame-nippingly-tight BTB gauge.
3. Left side of main long upper portion of running plate bent into a sagging curve.
4. Cab leaning backwards on the pulled-down-from-horizontal rear section of running plate.
5. One handrail knob on left side of boiler rattling around loose on the wire rather than glued into the boiler.
6. Top lamp iron bent back against the smokebox door.
7. Left cabside numbers not truly horizontal / not in line with the cab shape or the lining panel.

Pure coincidence that four or five of the defects appeared only/mainly the side of the loco that cannot be seen as presented in its box?

More later.....
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Atlantic 3279 wrote:Simon has probably been wondering why I've not yet asked him for money and sent him a loco. Well, in part I was checking that the loco stood up to further handling and scrutiny, also that it passed further running trials, but (perhaps most of all) I wanted to get a standard Bachmann A2, ready for my next conversion attempt, and do a side-by-side comparison of the "mint out of the box" factory item and my long-suffering converted loco.
That's absolutely fine Graeme - hold onto it for as long as you need with your build. :)
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Locos compared: The rear end sag of the factory item shows well enough. I suspect the sag in the long running plate, and the drunken numbers are just evident too. The extent of the A2/3 changes is clear.
Image
STA76946 L sides composite view.jpg
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STA76944 comp from top.jpg
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Re: Loco/vans/brakes workbench - another cunning RTR conversion?

Post by mick b »

Most of the defects you have listed seem common on most of the A2's mostly on the BR Green versions.
To save you some time this is a cure for the Cab problem


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... sloop-fix/
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