Fast Freights

[eddyln]

Hi All

Re speed of fitted freights.

If you read the biography of Bill Hoole, one of the top link jobs was the fully fitted Scotch Goods. (266 Down)

One day, when he was on this job, he was proceeding at a rate of great knots, when a hot box was noted on one of the wagons. He was turned into Westwood yard, Peterborough, for this wagon to be removed. This having been done, he was expecting to be put out fast road, but the signalman made him wait for the northbound Talisman to pass.

This seemed to annoy Bill, and he set off in pursuit. Apparently, it took him to about Retford to chase the Talisman down!!!! But he did so, as control was asked to comment on the report '266 Down(the Scotch goods), w/c Talisman, 4 mins'.

That is, Bill was held up by signals for 4 minutes waiting for the Talisman to clear the section in front!!

Note, the Talisman was one of the fastest expresses on the ECML at the time!!

John b

[CVR1865]

That's a great story, a bit later than the LNER but shows how fast the freights could be moved if needed.
Thanks
Simon.

[Bill Bedford]

I think you will find that the speeds listed in the appendices were maximum speeds.

[Solario]

I think you will find that the speeds listed in the appendices were maximum speeds.

No, the Appendix definitely states "Average".

In the previous section about speeds of freight rolling stock, sub section tank wagons, it is very explicit stating that " wagons carrying one star may be conveyed only on freight trains not exceeding an average speed of 35mph from start to stop."

[Bill Bedford]

So how was a loco crew expected to work out their average speed without the benefit of a speedometer or even a watch?

[Multiprinter]

So how was a loco crew expected to work out their average speed without the benefit of a speedometer or even a watch?

The same way as they worked out their speed so as to obey speed restrictions.

[Solario]

So how was a loco crew expected to work out their average speed without the benefit of a speedometer or even a watch?

I should think that it was down to timetables; when necessary, time being made up at the driver's discretion.

[James Brodie]

I think some of these high speeds claimed should be taken with a pinch of salt!
If you read the LNER appendix one vehicle which had a longer wheelbase than an ordinary box wagon was a Horse Box. These were limited to 60mph on LNER lines. The LWB Fish wagons were rated faster than the 21' long box wagons-60mph dropped sown to 45 later in life. Coming up to the sixties when the FTLB came out then the yellow panels gave the maximum speed a vehicle was allowed to go. I can't remember seeing any 75mph indications but if there were then I am sure someone will point one out.
Regarding speedometers and non watches-when we passed a box we could always see the time from the signalboxes as we passed them. Speed well if you counted two and a half seconds between telegraph poles you would be doing about 75-80mph. That was on EPs with a Green Arrow.
Jim Brodie

[StevieG]

.... And wasn't there an adage that if travelling along track consistently formed of 60-foot rails, the number of joints heard in 41 seconds = speed in mph?
No idea if footplate noise and vibration would have made application of this one possible by the crew though.

[Bryan]

And of course there is the method of timing between mileposts.
15 secs a quarter for 60 etc

[kudu]

I remain puzzled why a maximum AVERAGE speed has any relevance, even if practicable.

Kudu

[The Crab]

I still find it incredible that drivers were not issued with watches until, I think, about 1970.

[Solario]

I remain puzzled why a maximum AVERAGE speed has any relevance, even if practicable.

It seems a bit strange to me, I would have thought that there would have been a reference to maximum speed but the only explanation that I can come up with is that it is down to timetabling.

[Blink Bonny]

OK, not an LNER engine but it does have some LNER DNA.

Back in the halcyon days of the '80s I did a Scarborough Spa behind City of Wells. We were delayed leaving Leeds so the driver decided to make the welkin ring somewhat with much noise and black smoke. The lurch at Micklefield was more pronounced than I expected so I thought about digging out my stopwatch. This turned into a determined attempt when Church Fenton vanished in a blur, garnished by exhaust smoke. Between there and Colton South Junction I timed the train at 9.5 seconds for the quarter mile. I looked at it disbelievingly. A chap opposite then showed me his 'watch. 9.5 seconds. 900 divided by 9.5 gives approx 94.75 mph. So much for the "60mph limit!" Its the nearest I reckon I'll ever get to the "ton" behind steam. Pity we were overtaking the diesel ahead so started seeing yellows.

Wasn't the Scotch Goods in the Top Shed Top Link?