Went to a very good talk on the WRMU in Hinderwell recently by Dr. Michael Williams . The NER wanted to route the railway inland at Mulgrave when they took over , but the cliff tunnels were too far advanced .
Another problem with the coast line is that Boulby Potash mine owns and maintains the line north to Skinningrove !
Six viaducts? Really? I can only think of four; Staithes; two at Sandsend and one on the golf course at Whitby . Plus reinstating the tunnels at Kettleness and Sandsend. No small undertaking, but the Boulby line had to reinstate one of each an, it seems, on the basis of far less ££ for potash than this mine might offer.
I didn't know that Clevealnd Potash (or whatever they are) actually owned the metal, though; that could prove a dealbreaker to this 'option' for obvious reasons.
Opening my battered copy of Ken Hoole's "Railways In Cleveland" I see that there were 5 viaducts between Prospect Hill and Boulby, namely -
Upgang
Newholm
East Row
Sandsend
Staithes
The last of which was no less than 152 feet tall and had a wind gauge fitted where trains had to stopped if the bell was ringing.
The tunnel at Grinkle is not on the same scale as Kettleness and Sandsend ; it had been closed for 16 years when the Boulby line reopened wheras the others have been disused for 53 years now.
If by referring to a viaduct on the Boulby line you mean the road overbridge at Loftus station it is hardly a "viaduct" except in the sense it has a support pier because it crosses the road at about 30 degrees.
PinzaC55 wrote:Opening my battered copy of Ken Hoole's "Railways In Cleveland" I see that there were 5 viaducts between Prospect Hill and Boulby, namely -
Upgang
Newholm
East Row
Sandsend
Staithes
The last of which was no less than 152 feet tall and had a wind gauge fitted where trains had to stopped if the bell was ringing.
The tunnel at Grinkle is not on the same scale as Kettleness and Sandsend ; it had been closed for 16 years when the Boulby line reopened wheras the others have been disused for 53 years now.
If by referring to a viaduct on the Boulby line you mean the road overbridge at Loftus station it is hardly a "viaduct" except in the sense it has a support pier because it crosses the road at about 30 degrees.
Yes, I'd forgotten Upgang. No, I didn't mean Loftus station bridge, I meant the Skinningrove/Carlin Howe viaduct just South of the steelworks spanning the A174. But it now occurs to me you'd also need a further level-crossing over the 174 at Boulby Mine.
All-in-all, doesn't look like it would pass a CBA! Pity.
Here's something I didn't know (but I'm sure others did). The WMRU's Carlin How viaduct was a sandstone construction about 150ft high. However, in the early 1900s, the pillars began to show signs of wear and so it was decided to fill in part of the valley up to the height of the viaduct. Shale was brought from Liverton mines and, after a culvert had been constructed to carry the stream, the build-up continued until the landmark had disappeared and the railway ran on an embankment instead of a bridge. After the railway closed, the top of this embankmemt was removed as part of engineering to realign the road to a smoother path - which road then had to be realigned again to permit the railway to be reinstated on today's much more modest structure!
Yes that's what I meant. It's years since I have seen it but I guess it IS a viaduct really (falls on sword). In a VERY hypothetical situation where the line was reopened I guess the new viaducts would have to be concrete. A concrete Staithes viaduct would be an epic structure.
BTW to be pedantic the NER didn't have ANY "Viaducts" only "Bridges".
Kettleness and in particular Sandsend tunnels are in particularly bad condition (one seriously distorted entrance of Sandsend collapsed in 2008). I imagine that Whitby will be the only option for a main line connection.
Just going off subject somewhat, didn't the original route between Whitby and Boulby get diverted not long after the route opened via either Sandsend or Kettleness tunnel due to collapsing cliffs, and was there infact another tunnel on this diverted section that has now totaly dissapeared into the sea?
Its good to know where you stand. Saves making a fool of yourself later......
Coboman wrote:Kettleness and in particular Sandsend tunnels are in particularly bad condition (one seriously distorted entrance of Sandsend collapsed in 2008). I imagine that Whitby will be the only option for a main line connection.
Just going off subject somewhat, didn't the original route between Whitby and Boulby get diverted not long after the route opened via either Sandsend or Kettleness tunnel due to collapsing cliffs, and was there infact another tunnel on this diverted section that has now totaly dissapeared into the sea?
According to Ken Hooles book the line originally ran round the cliff edge when it was being built but the risk of collapse was so great that they rebuilt it further in with the tunnels. He said that you could still see the original trackbed heading to the cliff.
Evening to Messrs Grinkle & Pinza, have noted your discussion about the 'classification' of the bridge or 'viaduct' over the A174 between Carlin How & Loftus, and for your information the structure shown in the photograph is a multi-span, simply supported, reinforced concrete through bridge, with central steel span, under Royal Engineer bridge classification.
The viaduct that was affected by mining subsidence in the early 1900s, was the Kilton Viaduct, and subsequently supported/entombed by waste materials from both local mines & blast furnaces on Teesside. A number of photographs exist of the structure, both before & during the construction of the embankment, and the photograph in Tomlinson indicates a viaduct comprising a multi-span, simply supported, steel truss through bridge with stone piers.
Greedy Boards wrote:Evening to Messrs Grinkle & Pinza, have noted your discussion about the 'classification' of the bridge or 'viaduct' over the A174 between Carlin How & Loftus, and for your information the structure shown in the photograph is a multi-span, simply supported, reinforced concrete through bridge, with central steel span, under Royal Engineer bridge classification.
The viaduct that was affected by mining subsidence in the early 1900s, was the Kilton Viaduct, and subsequently supported/entombed by waste materials from both local mines & blast furnaces on Teesside. A number of photographs exist of the structure, both before & during the construction of the embankment, and the photograph in Tomlinson indicates a viaduct comprising a multi-span, simply supported, steel truss through bridge with stone piers.
Hope that this is helpful
Regards
Greedy Boards
In the case of the Skinningrove viaduct I assumed that the previous poster wasn't referring to it since it was converted to an embankment so long ago that nobody alive today would remember it. Also, to be pedantic, the NER never referred to "viaducts" on it's system - they were only ever "bridges".
Coboman wrote:Kettleness and in particular Sandsend tunnels are in particularly bad condition (one seriously distorted entrance of Sandsend collapsed in 2008). I imagine that Whitby will be the only option for a main line connection.
Just going off subject somewhat, didn't the original route between Whitby and Boulby get diverted not long after the route opened via either Sandsend or Kettleness tunnel due to collapsing cliffs, and was there infact another tunnel on this diverted section that has now totaly dissapeared into the sea?
According to Ken Hooles book the line originally ran round the cliff edge when it was being built but the risk of collapse was so great that they rebuilt it further in with the tunnels. He said that you could still see the original trackbed heading to the cliff.
Thanks for clearing that up. I knew there was another route, but knew very little about it other than a few titbits I'd read on the net.
Jim
Its good to know where you stand. Saves making a fool of yourself later......
. Plus reinstating the tunnels at Kettleness and Sandsend. No small undertaking, but the Boulby line had to reinstate one of each an, it seems, on the basis of far less ££ for potash than this mine might offer.