Whitby, Scarborough and Boulby

[PinzaC55]

Hawsker is definitely the favourite option but Sirius now have the mining rights between Whitby and Scarborough.They are supposedly going to do an exploratory drill near Scarborough but given that rail is really the only option to move the potash it's hard to see how they could do that at that end of the line.

[PinzaC55]

As a matter of interest according to Wikipedia the Boulby site supplies HALF ( 50% ) of the UK's total consumption of Potash. If this site matched Boulby it would mean the UK would be self sufficient or have a surplus.
I've also been told that Boulby generates 4 trainloads a day on weekdays, 3 loads of Potash and 1 load of Rock Salt. Apparently a typical rake is 10 wagons hauled by a Class 66.

They are talking about 15,000 tons per day, that is about 3 times what Boulby produces, so there would be enough to supply the UK needs and still leave a surplus of 10,000 tons per day for export. That is a huge amount of material to be shifted, if it all went out by rail it would mean about 15 loaded trains out and, of course, 15 empties back. At the very least, it will require the reinstatement of many of the passing loops, the re-doubling of Grosmont to Whitby and possibly the creation of an east to north curve at Battersby. It is difficult to see how the NYMR services to Whitby could be accomodated when there are 30 reversals needed at Prospect Hill every day. It will turn the Esk Valley line from a sleepy backwater into one of the busiest lines in the country.
Apparantly the worlds largest producer of potash is presently Canada, with a total annual output of 9M tonnes. This one mine at Hawsker is expected to produce 5M tonnes per year. The farm price of potash at the moment is about £340 per tonne, about double that of 2 years ago, so the potential income from this mine is vast; the few million to upgrade the line is tiny by comparison.

Well Prospect Hill is not part of the Esk Valley Line (EVL) so that wouldn't matter but if you mean Bog Hall Junction then yes it would be "interesting" to say the least! The only economical way to do it would be to have a single turnround siding at Whitby with a single Class 66 stabled there so that an "Outbound" train from Hawsker could be "topped and tailed" to Whitby then detach the lead loco at Whitby and leave with a single 66 on the front. When the incoming empties arrived the detached loco would attach to the front and they would both go up to Hawsker.
If your idea of the number of trains is correct it would certainly mean redoubling to Grosmont, a loop at Castleton Moor and (my idea) a loop at Kildale to replace Battersby if the new chord were built. Redoubling from Nunthorpe to Middlesbrough might also be a good idea.
I did a bit of Googling for Sirius and it seems their turnover is in the order of the low Billions so it seems life around Whitby may become very interesting.

[seacoaler]

Hawsker is definitely the favourite option but Sirius now have the mining rights between Whitby and Scarborough.They are supposedly going to do an exploratory drill near Scarborough but given that rail is really the only option to move the potash it's hard to see how they could do that at that end of the line.

Suppose it would not be impossible to construct a new line to join the Scarborough line at some point, but very expensive.

[PinzaC55]

I think the tunnel at Gallows Close is bricked up but intact. I walked it a few years ago and I think anything at that end would involve flattening Sainsburys but when you think of the money and potential jobs involved I guess you couldn't rule it out. It just shows how stupid the policy of allowing development on disused railways really is.

[grinkle]

Wild idea: reinstate Pickering to Malton and send it all down the NYMR?

[Bryan]

From BBC York site today.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-13539281

As to sending it down the NYMR. Bit of a way to go really as the destination is the dedicated loading point on Teeside.
But I suppose it was one of the reasons the NYMR was built in the first place, shipping Iron Ore from Grosmont to Teeside via Pickering. There was even a proposal to send it North from Kirbymoorside.

[PinzaC55]

That article is interesting but a bit misleading since Sirius already have the mining rights. It seems like what they are doing is looking for sites for exploratory bore holes?
My favourite bit is
"Robin Gray, who runs a 215-acre farm at Harwood Dale, said: "I think the majority of people are... concerned as to what is it going to be, where is it going to be, what is it going to look like and what are the impacts going to be environmentally."

Call me cynical if you like but I think Mr Gray is less worried about the environment and more about the £ symbols dancing in front of his eyes!

[seacoaler]

I've been down Boulby Mine , while there I asked if they'd ever considered building a jetty straight out to sea to ship out potash , like some of the Welsh and Scottish quarries.
Answer was that the seas are too shallow locally for the large bulk carriers to get anywhere near the shore, unlike Scotland and Wales where in many places shoreline drops off straight into deep water.

[grinkle]

As to sending it down the NYMR. Bit of a way to go really as the destination is the dedicated loading point on Tees-side.

Ah. Good point.

[PinzaC55]

As to sending it down the NYMR. Bit of a way to go really as the destination is the dedicated loading point on Tees-side.

Ah. Good point.

Plus there's the small matter of a road and part of a housing estate at Pickering and about half a dozen level crossings. And the fact the NYMR might not want 15 heavy freight trains on their line.

[mr B]

flying buckets ???????

mr b just a thought

[grinkle]

As to sending it down the NYMR. Bit of a way to go really as the destination is the dedicated loading point on Tees-side.

Ah. Good point.

Plus there's the small matter of a road and part of a housing estate at Pickering and about half a dozen level crossings. And the fact the NYMR might not want 15 heavy freight trains on their line.

Fine. If we want to avoid reversing at Whitby, let's go the whole hog and reinstate the WRMU route back to Boulby.

[grinkle]

Hawsker is definitely the favourite option but Sirius now have the mining rights between Whitby and Scarborough.They are supposedly going to do an exploratory drill near Scarborough but given that rail is really the only option to move the potash it's hard to see how they could do that at that end of the line.

Suppose it would not be impossible to construct a new line to join the Scarborough line at some point, but very expensive.

Or indeed, to reinstate the WRMU route. Sandsend would love that! No level crossings though (maybe one near Hinderwell?)

[PinzaC55]

The interesting thing is that the farmer was quoted as farming at Harwood Dale where the nearest station on the Scarborough & Whitby was....Hayburn Wyke? If they were actually contemplating opening the mine in that vicinity it would mean reopening the S&W north from Staintondale - via Robin Hoods Bay - or south from Cloughton?

Incidentally I found the website for Sirius here http://www.siriusminerals.com/index.php ... s&Itemid=6
and there's a lot of interesting including the statement that "at least one new mine needs to open every year to keep up with global demand".

[seacoaler]

Hawsker is definitely the favourite option but Sirius now have the mining rights between Whitby and Scarborough.They are supposedly going to do an exploratory drill near Scarborough but given that rail is really the only option to move the potash it's hard to see how they could do that at that end of the line.

Suppose it would not be impossible to construct a new line to join the Scarborough line at some point, but very expensive.

Or indeed, to reinstate the WRMU route. Sandsend would love that! No level crossings though (maybe one near Hinderwell?)

Well it's only about 10 miles between end Boulby line and Whitby line and the only place trackbed is built on is West Cliff