sah1r wrote:I Lived at Brookmans Park for over 40 years and dont remember a siding on the down side. the Photo shows the line path and access road to the land at the side of the Royal Vet College from the Road bridge. This line path run down to the station and was a public Footpath. as I remember there was style that you could cross the line just south of the station to gain access the footpath the other side that ran at the bottom of the Gardens of the houses in The Gardens. Where I used to live. At one time the land on that side of the track was owned by the old LCC later GLC and it was planned that the would bring trains out with kids from London for day trips. But to my knowledge this never happend. No sideing was built. The only siding that was available was the one at Marshmore at Welham Green the next village.
If you go back to the first half dozen posts in the thread, you will see that there definitely was a siding on the down side at Hawkshead. There is even the source of a photograph of it quoted. What is in doubt is when it closed - it seems to have been in place in the early 1930's (although not necessarily in use) and had been removed by 1953.
hyperion wrote:I would like to send a coupla pics, one on the old Hawkshead line path which I have patrolled these 60 years or so passed. Also one or two for Giner re Wymondle bridge. But my shots are between 1-2MB which are evidently too big to post here. Pardon my ignorance in these modern matters but how can I 'downsize' them ???
Did you ever get an answer to your question? Two reasons I ask. One, I'd love to see your pics of the old bridge, and two, I've got a very nice shot of D of NZ running through Arlesey that was sent to me on Sunday that I like to reduce to put on the "Bittern's garter Blue Makeover" thread.
macduff wrote:I hope this can help, here is a photo of the sidings at Hawshead. not too sure of the date.
Very good. It is taken from almost exactly the same viewpoint as the one on p125 of LNER 150, but the signal on the down goods line is not there, so that presumably makes it later[?]
macduff wrote:I hope this can help, here is a photo of the sidings at Hawshead. not too sure of the date.
I don't see the siding - but suspect it would have once been immediately in front of the photographer?
I can't date the photograph but I'm pretty sure is post-dates the existence of Hawkshead box and the Down Main signal will be an automatic. I have no record of a signal on the Down Goods after Hawkshead box went although in keeping with other locations it is quite possible it was retained and operated from the ground frame that worked the siding connection, in which case it would normally have stood in the "off" position. If Hawkshead box had gone by the date of this photograph, the Up signals would be motor-worked from Marshmoor although the earliest plan I have seen for that box shows them to have been renewed as searchlight colour light signals, probably in the fifties.
I haven't even traced a date for the abolition of Hawkshead box but the most likely time would seem to be around 1928 when many smaller L&NER boxes were dispensed with in connection with the political circumstances of the time.
macduff wrote:I hope this can help, here is a photo of the sidings at Hawshead. not too sure of the date.
I don't see the siding - but suspect it would have once been immediately in front of the photographer?
I can't date the photograph but I'm pretty sure is post-dates the existence of Hawkshead box and the Down Main signal will be an automatic. I have no record of a signal on the Down Goods after Hawkshead box went although in keeping with other locations it is quite possible it was retained and operated from the ground frame that worked the siding connection, in which case it would normally have stood in the "off" position. If Hawkshead box had gone by the date of this photograph, the Up signals would be motor-worked from Marshmoor although the earliest plan I have seen for that box shows them to have been renewed as searchlight colour light signals, probably in the fifties.
I haven't even traced a date for the abolition of Hawkshead box but the most likely time would seem to be around 1928 when many smaller L&NER boxes were dispensed with in connection with the political circumstances of the time.
John
It looks like both the fast line signals have BPRS type signal motors.
Hawkshead box: down side at 14m 07½ch, opened 6/1886 closure date unknown
Bell Bar box: side of line unknown, north of Potters Bar at 15m 25ch, opened 12/1872 closed circa 1882
Red Hall box: down side at 16m 40¾ch, opening date unknown, which I have closing 07.02.1965
If the picture of Bell Bar is one that I once saw, I thought it looked like it was on the outside of a curve.
Thinking of boxes' one-time purpose of functioning as section-break points (if later, it was not their whole reason-to-be), and as I believe Redhall was a very old structure, I had always imagined that Bell Bar would have been roughly halfway between Hawkshead and Redhall [I don't think Marshmoor was a block post when Bell Bar existed, though there might've been a 'kept' crossing there, about 200 yards north of where the box was (cottage(s) very close to the line on the up side, lining up about exactly with a lane going away from the line on the down side) ], and Andy's supplied mileages seem to bear that out.
So all this, I reckoned would have put Bell Bar on the curve south of the road bridge at Marshmoor, near a small underbridge over a lane, and once known as (probably now forgotten) 'Skimpans Bridge', where there are some wooden horse stables down below in the fields on the up side, and which is only just two or three fields away from Bell Bar 'hamlet' and Brookmans Park radio station.
And if the box was sensibly placed on the outside of the curve for maximum visibility both ways along the line, then it would have been on the up side at this location.
StevieG wrote:If the picture of Bell Bar is one that I once saw, I thought it looked like it was on the outside of a curve.
Thinking of boxes' one-time purpose of functioning as section-break points (if later, it was not their whole reason-to-be), and as I believe Redhall was a very old structure, I had always imagined that Bell Bar would have been roughly halfway between Hawkshead and Redhall [I don't think Marshmoor was a block post when Bell Bar existed, though there might've been a 'kept' crossing there, about 200 yards north of where the box was (cottage(s) very close to the line on the up side, lining up about exactly with a lane going away from the line on the down side) ], and Andy's supplied mileages seem to bear that out.
So all this, I reckoned would have put Bell Bar on the curve south of the road bridge at Marshmoor, near a small underbridge over a lane, and once known as (probably now forgotten) 'Skimpans Bridge', where there are some wooden horse stables down below in the fields on the up side, and which is only just two or three fields away from Bell Bar 'hamlet' and Brookmans Park radio station.
And if the box was sensibly placed on the outside of the curve for maximum visibility both ways along the line, then it would have been on the up side at this location.
According to the mileages Bell Bar box would have been 3ch north of Skimpans Bridge (No.54) which was at 15m 22ch, and I think you're very probably right about the position of the box - if only Appendices would say which side of the line boxes were on! Incidentally, Skimpans bridge is listed as Bell Bar bridge in early bridge records, being referred to as Skimpans from about 1897 onwards
