Returning to Grantham

[rob237]

61070,

Interesting to me that the Pic 15, of Feb 66, is one of your first to show the south end devoid of the trailing crossovers - featuring the pair of single slips - and the nearer loop feed in to the down main, with its short headshunt.
Wonder if anyone knows the date that this rationalization took place?

Cheers
Robt P.

[workev]

John,

Trust me I have and continue to use as many forums as I can and websites for formations. Pullmans seem to be covered, although not so much actual workings of specific carriages. I have a plethora of DVDs, although maybe not exhaustive, and you can never have too much footage of the ECML!

I have to say that research for the model has been great fun and educational; and I am nowhere near finished.

I will start a modelling blog soon, so will post a link here so that maybe some of you could follow my work....

Ian

[61070]

61070,

Interesting to me that the Pic 15, of Feb 66, is one of your first to show the south end devoid of the trailing crossovers - featuring the pair of single slips - and the nearer loop feed in to the down main, with its short headshunt.
Wonder if anyone knows the date that this rationalization took place?

Cheers
Robt P.

I can help to narrow it down a little. I have a photo which shows that the trackwork you mention was all present in July 1964 - see to top photo at viewtopic.php?t=2468&p=17264#p17264 . The south/up end of the crossing trackwork can just be seen at top right, and there is a shunting disc signal which applies to a reversing movement off the down line.

The down loop to down main connection with headshunt had gone by August/Sept 1965 as this other photo shows (I don't know the exact date of this one, but the transparency mount is marked 'Sep 65').

More porters with a load of fruit (blackcurrants possibly, as you can just get a peep in under one of the box lids).

[rob237]

Many thanks for your summary, and supporting picture...
Rather confirms my suspicion that the track changes were undertaken early/mid '65...
Cheers
Robt P.

[61070]

A few more for the diesel traction fans:

1. D9018 Ballymoss with 1A46, the 16:00 from King’s Cross to Edinburgh, The Talisman.
24th May 1962

2. The Sheffield Pullman leaves Grantham for King's Cross. The train consists of six coaches, with brake second class Car No.78, built in 1928, bringing up the rear, another similar vehicle at the front, and four more modern Pullman Cars making up the rest of the train. My spotting notes and the notes of an observer at Retford on the same day concur that the locomotive on this occasion was D6800.
27th June 1963

3. 1A35 was the 10:00 from Edinburgh to King’s Cross The Flying Scotsman, hauled by Edinburgh Haymarket-based ‘Deltic’ locomotive No.D9016 (later named Gordon Highlander). The locomotive carries the ‘winged thistle’ headboard which had replaced the steam era headboard.
21st May 1964

4. The Pullman train standing at platform 3 is 1G60, the 11:20 from King’s Cross to Sheffield. The diesel multiple unit train in the bay platform is for Nottingham. In the centre background a yellow-painted track maintenance vehicle can be glimpsed.
The lush green area in the right background is the site of Grantham mpd which closed in 1963; the remaining wall of the ‘old shed’ and some other buildings can just be discerned, along with the Pilotmen's Cabin on the extreme right.
The green-painted enclosure at ground level in the centre marks an 'air shaft' at the mid-point of the pedestrian tunnel under the tracks on the footpath between Station Road and Huntingtower Road. It's really the end-on junction of two tunnels (actually they are long, narrow bridges, built like dry culverts), the older on the left, under the ECML, dating from 1852, and an extension to the right, built later when the station and layout were extended in width. The right of way is still very much in regular use.
August/September 1965

[strang steel]

More excellent photos, thanks very much.

I finally invested in the Keith Pirt album of Grantham and have enjoyed that also, but it made me wonder if anyone knew who might have the copyright and collection of P H Wells? I know that a lot of his shots were around Stamford, but in BR Steam Portrait Vol4 there is a photo of 61541 leaving Essendine with a Peterborough - Grantham all stations local on 5th July 1956.

What is surprising to me, is of the (circa) 9 coaches in the train, at least 6 are Mk1s which must have been relatively new at the time and I would not have expected to see quite so many being used on an all stations service.

I wonder what other gems he may have taken on the same day, or on similar visits to the ECML? I have a copy of Steam In The East Midlands which is excellent too, but wonder if there are any other of his publications out there that I might have missed?

[61070]

Back a couple of pages (bottom of page 36):

1. Towards the evening of our first ever visit, on 31st August 1961, these four very smartly turned out men are about to descend the ramp outside the Yard Box.

When I was digitally ‘tidying up’ this picture the other day I made the effort to try to read what is embossed into the metal containers. It turns out to be ‘BRITISH RAILWAYS COLLICO SERVICE’.

I've just found one of those aluminium trunks for sale at an Antiques & Collectables auction - in New South Wales!
http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?c ... 69&lang=En
Looks like it's made of sturdy stuff.

[60022Mallard]

As diesels have been mentioned a highlight of the day when spotting at Peterborough in the early 60's was the Cliffe to Uddingston cement train usually with a pair of "33s" passing northbound mid afternoon if I recall correctly.

Can someone enlighten me as to when the 33s started and finished, was it daily and at what time did they return south?

I am surprised there has been no photograph of this at Grantham on this thread yet.

Someone mentioned possibly seeing D6513 at Grantham but I thought generally this was a turn for Hither Green based locos, which were the higher numbered ones.

[strang steel]

Someone mentioned possibly seeing D6513 at Grantham but I thought generally this was a turn for Hither Green based locos, which were the higher numbered ones.

It is interesting that you mention this, because that was my first thought when I read that. But then I looked more closely at my "cops" in the mid 60s and I had seen a few of the Eastleigh based ones; plus there are reports of some of them double heading with a 9F when the second loco failed although I cant find the links.

Certainly, the Hither Green ones were the norm, and what is just as surprising is that a number of the Hastings gauge locos were seen on the service from time to time.

So I decided to consult a few contemporary magazines, and found the following:-

D6528+D6566 4/12/61
D6572+D6575 5/12/61
D6590+D6578 28/2/62
D6552+D6578 4/8/62
D6579 13/8/62 (failed at Tallington, assisted by B1) empties worked by D391
D6550 14/8/62 (failed at Barnet)
D6573 22/8/62 (failed at Stevenage assisted by D5906 which failed at Hitchin.)
I would love to have seen the above pairing.
D6542+D6554 16/10/62

[61070]

As diesels have been mentioned a highlight of the day when spotting at Peterborough in the early 60's was the Cliffe to Uddingston cement train usually with a pair of "33s" passing northbound mid afternoon if I recall correctly.

Can someone enlighten me as to when the 33s started and finished, was it daily and at what time did they return south?

I am surprised there has been no photograph of this at Grantham on this thread yet.

Someone mentioned possibly seeing D6513 at Grantham but I thought generally this was a turn for Hither Green based locos, which were the higher numbered ones.

Being such a highlight, the cement trains have a thread of their very own at:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2322&hilit=cement+trains

Here's some additional information I've gathered since I put those pictures up:

The duties of the '9F' locomotives on these heavy trains were remembered by Dave Somers in a letter published in Steam World (Issue 271, January 2010, p16). Dave's father, Jack Somers, was Shedmaster at New England in the late 1950s. Dave recalled an occasion when his father was talking of locomotives in his retirement. '…he mentioned what a versatile locomotive the BR '9F' was. There was only one job, he said, that had winded the '9Fs' on the long ECML gradients – a bulk cement train that I think was brought to Ferme Park by a pair of Southern Region Type 3 diesels … and then worked down the ECML by a Peterborough steam locomotive until sufficient diesel drivers were available. He usually tried to ensure that one of New England's 'A2' allocation was allotted to the task. The 'A2' with its 50 sq. ft. grate, double Kylchap exhaust and 10 in. piston valves was capable of producing the power necessary to time the train.'

[strang steel]

And I have had a very senior moment, by not remembering I had already posted this to that thread:-

on Jan 18th 1962 the train was headed by 92044 and D6513, then on the 10th Feb 60106 and D6517 were on the working; both seen passing Newark. Both of these were due to a failure of the second diesel further south.

So those two were Eastleigh locos, but they must have been an exception.

[workev]

I wonder whether any pictures exist of a New England A2 hauling the train?

Looks like I might have to get hold of a couple of 33's for the layout then......

Ian

[61070]

Back a couple of pages (bottom of page 36):

1. Towards the evening of our first ever visit, on 31st August 1961, these four very smartly turned out men are about to descend the ramp outside the Yard Box.

When I was digitally ‘tidying up’ this picture the other day I made the effort to try to read what is embossed into the metal containers. It turns out to be ‘BRITISH RAILWAYS COLLICO SERVICE’.

I've just found one of those aluminium trunks for sale at an Antiques & Collectables auction - in New South Wales!
http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?c ... 69&lang=En
Looks like it's made of sturdy stuff.

On a recent visit to the Ken Hoole Study Centre I had a look at some instructions, dated 1st January 1963, relating to the Collico service. The booklet has many pages, but the following definition summarises the system:
The "British Railways Collico Service" is a scheme under which Messrs. Collico Ltd. of London Scottish House, London Road, Barking, Essex, hire to traders collapsibe Collico cases for conveyance of merchandise by British Railways' services and British Railways undertake to provide an efficiant and reliable service for the conveyance of the outwards full traffic and return of the collapsed flat cases.

[61070]

On August 14th (page 16) I mentioned that my Lyons Maid ‘Zoom’ Famous Locomotives lolly card collection had been short of two cards since 1964. Then, on December 4th (page 30), I mentioned that there was hope that those cards might yet be tracked down. Well, thanks a friendly card collector with the right ‘contacts’ the two cards are now in place, and my album is complete. The 20 or so swaps I’d been hanging onto for more that 45 years were all willingly surrendered in gratitude!

Continuing with the ice cream theme, on page 16 there is one photo of ice cream sellers, and here are two more.

1. Phyllis Smith and her ice cream trolley at the south end of platform 3. A steam-hauled northbound train, whose passengers she has been serving, is just leaving the station and she’s most likely finished for the afternoon. 3rd October 1963.

2. Main line trains which stopped at Grantham for a locomotives change, or to take water, might be in the station for around 5 to 10 minutes. During this time the Eldorado ice cream sellers were kept busy, but then it was as well to have your knitting with you until the next train pulled in! 27th June 1963.
Phyllis is remembered for knitting garments for the young children of families around where she lived, including those of several railwaymen.
I’ve been trying to recall what subject of the poster was – can anyone remember?

3. Looking north along platform 4, the Nottingham bay platform. The two men’s attention appears to be on a cloud of steam and what appears to be a violently lifting safety valve round the curve on the main line. The canopy over this platform had been removed by July 1964. 3rd October 1963.

Here's one for ‘classic moped’ fans (there must be some out there?):

4. Examiner Charlie Wallbanks with his Villiers-engined Norman Nippy moped. 30th April 1964.

[52D]

Re advert Brylcreme comes to mind.