Returning to Grantham

[StevieG]

As stated above (twice), this service involved use of collapsible cases : That much I do recall - I think that in 1971 (when I was briefly involved in parcels work), the Collico service had been, or was near to being, discontinued : I was not encouraged to worry about learning its details.
Could it be presumed that, from needing to hire the case(s), they were to give protection against damage in transit?

I imagine that this would also be a type of service where fully registered transit (such as was RPT for parcels), and/or accelerated journeys (a fore-runner of part of the Red Star service?), might have been features, but that is entirely my conjecture.

Having thought back to Registered Parcel Transit, has also brought back to mind that in those times, the railway still had the PLA service available ; Nothing to do with the Port of London Authority, but actually Passenger's Luggage in Advance [of the passenger(s) him/herself travelling].

[Tony]

For interest re this thread - my 'avatar' pic is 60105 Victor Wild - then a Grantham engine, taken at Grantham MPD.

[workev]

As always this thread provides a fascinating read with respect to steam, but can I broach the subject of diesels on shed at 34F in the late 50s until closure?

I have seen on this thread and in books pictures of 47s, Peaks and I think a 40 on shed at Grantham. I have three questions:

1) Were there any diagrams that led to diesels being stabled on shed? I cannot recall anybody mentioning that fuelling facities existed for diesels, so I assume that they were inbetween workings. I seem to recall in the late 70s and early 80s that diesels were often stabled in what was left of the roads; but I never knew what brought them there (when did High Dyke close to traffic).

2) Was there ever a diesel pilot at 34F before closure.

3) I would like to compile a list of diesels that appeared at Grantham, so far I have:

Class 31, 33, 37(?), 40, 45, 46, 47, 55. Also prototype Deltic and Lion (I think).

Does anybody know whether the 24s that were allocated in East Anglia in the early days ever make it through Grantham?

Sorry to the steam diehards, but modelling Grantham in the late 50s until closure means diesels cannot be ignored, and I cannot model the ECML without any Deltics can I?

Ian

[strang steel]

Class 37s were not that frequent at Grantham, but they did appear on occasion. Some of my spotting notes went missing many years ago, but a quick look through what I do have shows D6716 on a parcels 10th April 1968 and strangely enough D6717 on 26th October 1968 with a freight - 7M42 which I presume was destined for Colwick, as the loco returned l/e about 90 minutes later.

Class 25s were also intermittent visitors, in my experience mainly the later ones with 3 large cab windows. D7556 appeared on 10th April 1967 but the headcode was 7X72 which gives no clues as to its destination, although it was heading south.

D7530 was on 3M23 on 4th August 1967 .

I cannot add anything to the question about the E Anglian class 24s, except to say that I think it would be highly unlikely if one ever ventured that far. There were a decent number of them at March in 1960, but they did not stay there very long and I dont think March had any diagrams to Grantham.

I cant remember ever seeing any class 20s at Grantham, but they were regulars west of Allington Junction and I am sure a few must have ventured as far as the sidings, but does anyone have confirmation?

[ROY@34F]

Workev wrote:

I have seen on this thread and in books pictures of 47s, Peaks and I think a 40 on shed at Grantham. I have three questions:

1) Were there any diagrams that led to diesels being stabled on shed? I cannot recall anybody mentioning that fuelling facities existed for diesels, so I assume that they were inbetween workings. I seem to recall in the late 70s and early 80s that diesels were often stabled in what was left of the roads; but I never knew what brought them there (when did High Dyke close to traffic).

2) Was there ever a diesel pilot at 34F before closure.


Ian, I dont think Grantham had any diesel allocations in steam days,up to the shed closing, though we did , in the last year or two have a 350 hp. shunter to go up to Highdyke with c/over crews. Where it was fuelled I don't know , but the diesel railcars were serviced in the track engineere's yard on the down side,near the north 'box .So was diesel oil stored there? I'm not sure.All I remember is that our steam fitters used to service the railcars there.Whether the 350 shunter was officially shedded at Grantham; not sure.
I am pretty sure there was never a diesel standing pilot (main line pilot)before the steam shed closed .Can't say after that, 'cos I left the job in Dec.'63.
If you are modelling late '50's,then yes,there would be the odd diesel on shed occasionally,certainly class's 40,47,31,and most likely others,as you say, but not too often.
Sorry,not sure when highdyke branch closed.
.

[rob237]

Also unsure over the Grantham shunter shedding/fuelling arrangements, but I'm aware that - even through to BR Blue days - the Newark Northgate shunter was from the Lincoln allocation (often 08 113) and was fuelled there prior to travelling over for a weeks' work. Reckon the Grantham loco would have a more demanding workload, and would have required fuel top-ups during a week...
Cheers
Robt P

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

Workev,
You missed the Brush Falcon D0280 from your list which was a regular on the "Sheffield Pullman" / "Master Cutler", as were the 41A Sheffield Darnall allocation of English ElectricType 3 Diesels,( class 37,s) you naughty man you.
They were obviosly just passing through so would not have been seen on Shed.
Kind Regards.

[workev]

Oops! What diagrams did the Darnall 37's work and when?

Ian

[YNMR]

You could in theory include Kestrel in your list as it worked out of Hull Dairycoates for a while on freight to London.

[strang steel]

Didnt a SR demu work some trials on the ECML after the Hither Green accident, or is that just my alcohol-ruined memory?

If so, might that have reached Grantham, in order to run fast down Stoke Bank?

[Beechwood]

What about all the locos delivered new to Doncaster and then despatched to Hornsey etc? The Class 21s and 26s would have made a trip south and within a couple of years a trip north again on their way to the Scottish Region, for example?

[StevieG]

Didnt a SR demu work some trials on the ECML after the Hither Green accident, or is that just my alcohol-ruined memory?

If so, might that have reached Grantham, in order to run fast down Stoke Bank?

I'm sure one did do some ECML runs, but couldn't say how far north it went.
If I correctly remember what I once read years later, the trials were to compare the train's ride qualities with everyday experience of them on the Southern, and that it rode very nicely on the ER P.Way.

[61070]

StevieG - thanks for the info about the Collico service. I'll try to get a look at the booklet in the Ken Hoole archive sometime.

Hello workev - I’ve had a look through my notes from visits to Grantham spanning 1963-70 (though very infrequent from 1965 onward) and can confirm that all the classes you’ve listed appeared quite routinely. A Darnall class 37 was often on the Sheffield Pullman, as has been said.

I can confirm D0260 Lion, and don’t forget DP2.

350hp Shunters seem generally to have been Class 10; one or more was seen on just about every visit, and I presume they'd come in to replace N2s/L1s. From 1964 shed allocations seem to be 34E New England, but I don’t have access to allocation data before May 1964.

The ironstone traffic ceased in 1973.

An ‘erratic’ which I listed on 21/5/1964 is D6153. I expect it was more than likely D6513, but I’m open to discussion on what would otherwise have been a very rare ‘cop’!

Here are two pictures I took on a dull Sunday 6th Feb 1966:
1. Class 10 D3441 in the carriage sidings
2. D1982 on 1A42, the 15:00 King’s Cross to Newcastle

[workev]

Thanks to all those who have posted a reply so far. Some of these are too late for my model, but interesting nevertheless. I suppose I could always find a way of putting light engine moves of some of the Sulzers that started life in the south then moved to Scotland, and also any locos that entered Doncaster works. I suspect that these probably didnt pass through Grantham.

I need to stay in the steam era; so plenty of scope it seems.

My next big piece of research is on tran formations and rollong stock in general. The freight side of High Dyke gives plenty of scope as well as the other longer distance freights, but the mixture of coaching stock held at Grantham as well as the through trains will prove interesting.

The trouble is here is that the lure of pacifics and Deltics rather took the focus off what was behind them, so numbers and notes on the stock seem to be very illusive.

Ian

[strang steel]

My advice Ian, would be to invest in a few ECML videos or dvds. There are quite a few that cover the southern ECML, and although Grantham is not the main feature on many of them, the train formations would be the same even if the film sequence is at Huntingdon, Welwyn or Kings Cross. (Except for the inner/outer suburban services of course).

You may also find some scans of carriage working diagrams on various Yahoo groups. The BRCS (BR Coaching Stock) group springs to mind.