Returning to Grantham

[61070]

G'Day Gents

Thanks for a great thread, did you go anywhere else on the Eastern ?? in the 60's

And a Happy New Year to you, thanks again.

manna

We didn't go elsewhere on the ER much - Grantham was our only regular outing. We didn't have a family car but the bus to Grantham ran past our door every hour, so that was it really. By the time I became old enough to be able to venture independently - even with a group of friends - steam on passenger services had pretty much finished everywhere within striking distance of Leicester, except on the poor old rundown GC which the LMR was in the final stage of finishing off. We did travel on holiday to Norfolk (Sheringham actually - see viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2788&p=20633&hilit ... ham#p20633 if you haven't already) every year in June, from 1959 (we missed a trip on the M&GN by a few months!) until probably the mid-60s, but East Anglia seemed to be quite comprehensively 'dieselised' by that time. There was a glimpse of a B1 or two on stationary boiler duty at Norwich I think. Running parallel to the ECML approaching Peterborough there was the anticipation of main line steam and perhaps a Deltic, but after that - miles of boring fenland (or so it seemed to me!). Actually the nearest station to home was the GN's Leicester (Belgrave Road), though by then it was used for storing coaches and little else, except for a flurry of activity on a few summer Saturdays when seaside trains brought passengers once more. I used to gaze through the padlocked gates trying to imagine what it would have been like as a busy terminus - which it never was, of course. I do remember being taken along to a BR 'modern image' exhibition there as a very small child (so it was probably 1957 or 58) and going from the platform into the cab of a diesel shunter which had its engine running. Later, sad to say, the once handsome station became a scrapyard for a few years, but with old wooden GNR platform signs still hanging from the cavernous roof.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

It's a depressing picture that's being painted,of the railway world ! but the sun was shining ?? I used to sit on the platforms,at Wood Green, waiting for a steam hauled suburban train as they became rarer every week, very little in the way of steam on the coal trains to Hornsey, and then, no coal trains! all the Pacific's, gone, The Palace Gates branch, closed, then away to Australia, so I never saw the last day Probably better to remember as it was.
manna

[strang steel]

Which might be a good point to wonder if we could discover the last BR steam working through Grantham (not including preserved locos or withdrawn locos being towed for scrap)?

I presume that it must have been in 1966, or maybe late 1965?

I know I saw a K1 (either 62055 or 62070) in the up loop at Barkston one day and was quite shocked as steam was almost unknown at that location by this time, so 1966 is possible but I lost my notes years ago. The loco remained there for a long time while a procession of Deltics and Brush 4s sped by and I thought I would be forced to leave before it did, but eventually the loop signal came off and the K1 puffed by with a long train of mineral wagons heading south.

This was my last non-preserved steam loco at that location and it could not have avoided Grantham.

[PGBerrie]

Later! I remember taking a weekend return for 50/- from Kings X to Wakefield, possibly November 1967, might even have been 1968, and being pulled by a B1. It must of been about 10.00 pm or later and arrived at Wakefield Kirkgate at 1.30 am or later. There were delays at Doncaster because of track maintenance work.

Or is my memory playing tricks again?

Peter

[61070]

Sorry guys, I don't think I can help to advance the boundaries of knowledge much on this one. The last date on which I definitely saw steam at Grantham was a comparatively early 30th July 1964 (90195, 92044, 92183, and 92192).

On 4th August 1966 I travelled by bus to Grantham and returned to Leicester by train, via Nottingham Vic. First steam recorded were 76075 and 76089 but this was late in the day and, I expect, they were seen on the approach to, or even at, Nottingham.

[strang steel]

New England closed on 3rd January 1965 and I suspect the number of steam workings between Peterborough, Grantham and points north fell dramatically after that date.

Maybe I ought to peruse a few ROs and see what I can find.

[PGBerrie]

Just checked in Return to Leeds (Railway Memories No22, Bellcode Books). the last rostered steam working to leave Leeds for Kings X must have been on the 16th June 1963. Probably on the White Rose, since diesels had taken over all regular Kings X workings by then. After I posted last night I thought maybe I saw the B1 at Doncaster.

Peter

[strang steel]

I have looked through the 1966 Railway Observers and there is nothing mentioned of steam through Grantham at all. 48000 was noted arriving in Peterborough from the north, but as that was a 16D loco I assume it had travelled on the Midland lines via Stamford.

3E06 seems the most likely candidate. That was the 0100 ex-Craigentinny empty stock train, but the reports do not say if the destination was New England or further south. Anyhow, the last steam working on this train that I can find was 92239 on Oct 7th 1965. The 9F conveniently failed at Grantham and so becomes the best candidate so far.

I wonder if 3E06 was maybe not continued in the winter timetable, which may be the reason why there are no reports in subsequent months?

[61070]

I've just come across this while browsing the A1 Trust website. They have an as-yet-incomplete series of histories of the A1s and there is a reference to 60124 passing through (or maybe stopping? - I don't have the timetable) on Dec 24 1965, albeit (I expect) as a rather oversized steam heat boiler:

Towards the end of 1965 there were only two A1s left on the North Eastern Region: 60124 and 60145, both on standby duties with the former at Darlington and the latter at York. On Christmas Eve Kenilworth was coupled inside "Deltic" No. D9017 on the 10.15 am Newcastle-King's [Cross] and worked like this to Peterborough.

The link is http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=69

The Chronicles of Napier website doesn't yet have any working recorded for D9017 on that date, however.

Note added 13/1/11 - this was discovered to be a mistake (since corrected) on the quoted A1 Trust website page - see posts below. The correct date for the observation was Christmas Eve 1964.

[strang steel]

I've just come across this while browsing the A1 Trust website. They have an as-yet-incomplete series of histories of the A1s and there is a reference to 60124 passing through (or maybe stopping? - I don't have the timetable) on Dec 24 1965, albeit (I expect) as a rather oversized steam heat boiler:

Towards the end of 1965 there were only two A1s left on the North Eastern Region: 60124 and 60145, both on standby duties with the former at Darlington and the latter at York. On Christmas Eve Kenilworth was coupled inside "Deltic" No. D9017 on the 10.15 am Newcastle-King's [Cross] and worked like this to Peterborough.

That is a most interesting item, John. Thanks for taking the time to discover it. I can only assume that Kenilworth was in good running order at the time, because a Deltic on the 1015 Newcastle - KX would not be hanging about. Dead locomotives would have been subject to quite a severe speed restriction, and so presumably the A1 was literally double heading the train.

I must look again at the 1966 ROs and see if there is something that I have missed completely.

Edited to add that 60124 is said to have received attention at Darlington Works in late December but was back on duty by 31st.

There seems to be no report of how the loco returned from Peterborough to Darlington over Christmas. I am amazed that there is a report of D1980 working the 1015 Newcastle to Kings Cross on the 23rd December, and D1979 working the 1000 Newcastle to Kings Cross relief on the 24th, but no mention of the train passing only 15 minutes later which was far more interesting.

The loco was listed as being withdrawn in March 1966, possibly when Darlington shed closed to steam on 26th.

[strang steel]

I've just come across this while browsing the A1 Trust website. They have an as-yet-incomplete series of histories of the A1s and there is a reference to 60124 passing through (or maybe stopping? - I don't have the timetable) on Dec 24 1965, albeit (I expect) as a rather oversized steam heat boiler:

Towards the end of 1965 there were only two A1s left on the North Eastern Region: 60124 and 60145, both on standby duties with the former at Darlington and the latter at York. On Christmas Eve Kenilworth was coupled inside "Deltic" No. D9017 on the 10.15 am Newcastle-King's [Cross] and worked like this to Peterborough.

The link is http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=69

The Chronicles of Napier website doesn't yet have any working recorded for D9017 on that date, however.

Thanks for that link, John

However, I thought that the return working would have been even more interesting, so I emailed Tommy Knox to see if he had any information on how Kenilworth might have returned to Darlington.

I have pasted his reply below:-




"I think that there is a misunderstanding here. On the 24th December 1965 60124 was in Darlington Works and the standby loco was 60145.

60124 went into the works on the 17th and came out on the 30th December and on the 31st was the standby loco on Darlington. The working you refer to was in fact the last time this loco visited London but was on the 24th December 1964. The loco returned on the 28th December on 5N01 Ferme Park – York freight and then ran light engine to Darlington where it took up standby duties again. It was coupled inside D9017 to provide heating and my records do not mention that it was taken off at Peterborough.

With regard to workings south of York then the latest one was 60151 which worked 4S05 19.30 Whitemoor – Millerhill from Doncaster on the 14th October 1965, and before that 60877 worked a freight from York – Doncaster on the 24th July 1965. The last definite working I have for Grantham was on the 5th July 1965 when 60876 worked a Haverton Hill – Peterborough special but I do not have a record of its return working although if it was a special it probably returned the same day. I have many workings of Pacifics and V2s on workings from Leeds and York but these are the latest for your area

I hope this helps

Tommy "


So I think we are back with 92239 on Oct 7th.

The A1 Trust have been contacted re the typo.

[61070]

Thanks for getting to the bottom of that so quickly. Sure enough Chronicles of Napier has a record of D9017/60124 on 1A21 on 24.12.64 (but with the reference to the pacific working Newcastle-Peterbrough only). I will go back and edit my original post about this, so that it doesn't mislead others who may not read on.

[61070]

The tale of 60124 and D9017 in December 1964 brought to mind a story told to me in an email by ROY@34F about when he had a simlar experience on a B1 from Grantham. I hope he won't mind my repeating it here as it seems so appropriate.

'1389 was renowned at the time as a ‘flier’, a particularly free running engine. I recall one day on it with Driver George Taylor. We coupled up to an express going north with a Deltic on the front of us on which the steam heating boiler had failed. So we were there really just to heat the train. Old George remarked on the reputation of 1389, but nobody would have been as fast on it as we were that day, he reckoned. The Deltics were very powerful of course, and [the driver] was no doubt making time up. It was difficult to keep the fire in with all the draught and not having much work for the engine to do.

61389 has already featured in a couple of photos on this thread, and it has a page to itself in the recently published Keith Pirt Grantham Colour Portfolio, but here's another shot of the old 'flier' reversing past the site of the 'Old Shed', with the foot of the coaling stage ramp in the background, on 16th April 1964.

[deltic9013]

Further to the last steam workings at Grantham, I have checked my records as I was a regular on the platforms at that time. Unfortunately I didn’t record the dates so I have listed the following observations. To narrow it down I have researched the locomotive withdrawal dates and last shed allocation using britishsteam.com. If we add that I did not visit Grantham before April 1964, when I moved with my parents to Radcliffe on Trent, then the time period is narrowed down. I have also listed some interesting diesel workings at the same time. The Class 33s on the Cliffe –Uddingston cement working which also caused the early demise of DP2, also listed. The one and only time I saw a ‘Baby Deltic’ at work is shown. It was particularly unusual for these ill fated locomotives to work this far north and D5908 was immaculate on this day! The numbers are in groups spotted on the same day. It is noticeable how some days were better than others as far as steam were concerned, group e being particularly good!
a) 92187 Colwick 2/65, 61223 Immingham 1/66, 92191 Colwick 12/65, 92189 12/65. (Time span: 4/64-2/65)
b) 92186 Langwith Junction 8/65 (Time span: 4/64-8/65)
c) 61107 Doncaster 8/65, 43065 Colwick 1/65. (Time span: 4/64-1/65)
d) 61250 Doncaster 4/66 (Time span: 4/64-4/66)
e) 43092 Stavely (Barrow Hill) 4/65, D5908, 61302 Colwick 4/66, 92041 Langwith Junction 8/65, 92146 Doncaster 4/66, 92180 Langwith Junction 5/65, D6580,DP2. 90048* (Time span: 4/64-4/65)
f) D6564, 92044 Langwith Junction 4/65, 4472 (reason for visit), 43060 Colwick 12/64,
92141 Colwick 12/65. (Time span: 4/64-12/64)
g) 61361 Colwick 12/65, D6507. (Time span: 4/64-12/65)
*90048 was recorded but according to records was withdrawn 5/63 and disposed of 6/63. I can only assume this is my mistake. I’m sorry I cannot be precise date wise but it may provoke some memories!

[61070]

Regarding your group f) - including 4472 - according to 'The Railtour Files' at http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/ , 'Scotsman' would have passed Grantham on the following two dates between 4/64 and 12/64 (while not necessarily excluding other tours on other dates that may not have been recorded):

30th August - 'Zoom Special', King's Cross to York and return

3rd October - 'Darlington Marquess' Railtour, King's Cross to Darlington and return (passed northbound 10.13, southbound 20.06)