KX train diagrams in the 1970s.

[Hermit 109]

Hi Rob237, pictures posted on LNER pictures under Cab Views including Retford North. Here is another Retford bonus for you, taken from an Ian Allen special with City Of Truro & the Midland Compound, as we passed through. 1960 I think

[rob237]

Thanks for that...
Retford North certainly the least photographed end of the station!
Even the late Keith Pirt, in his excellent Retford portfolio, seemed to favour the southern end...

Thanks too, for your various pics in the 'Views from the Cab' thread...

Cheers
Robt P.

[StevieG]

Thanks for the info. about the 'Scotch Goods's differing reporting numbers, and the P'boro south end photo (a bit of a privileged viewing point 'up front'), Hermit.

The change of the train number from Class 4 to 6 might've reflected a change in the train's max. permitted speed, or formation/braking capability, but I wonder if, instead, it was the time when (whose date I now don't recall) some of the Classes were revised; when a 5 became Empty Coaching Stock instead of one the goods types, and when 3 became mainly for fast Parcels' instead of also being for ECS and Freightliners, the latter of which changed to '4'.
.

[Andy W]

I think you're right Steve, the change to 6S64 happened when the general designations were altered.

I had a look through the KX casualty book for summer 1969 and it appears that 6O52 (21.30 Uddingston-Cliffe) was manned by a Hither Green crew forward onto the SR. It was a 47 working by then, frequently a Gateshead one.

6S64 was a 40 working with both York and Haymarket engines featuring. But Freddie Orr took a 46 (164) north 40" late on 12/11/69 when 265 failed on departure with a power surge.

[Mickey]

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[52D]

Hi Rob237, pictures posted on LNER pictures under Cab Views including Retford North. Here is another Retford bonus for you, taken from an Ian Allen special with City Of Truro & the Midland Compound, as we passed through. 1960 I think

63961-Retford.jpg

Hi Hermit i have a few pictures and details of City of Truro around that era at Tweedmouth shed and astride the England Scotland Border at Lamberton Toll, your pic may go partly to solving the route she took north on her way to an exhibition in Scotland. Im at works do tonight so wont have time for further research till the weekend but watch for a post.

[Mickey]

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[strang steel]

I think you're right Steve, the change to 6S64 happened when the general designations were altered.

I had a look through the KX casualty book for summer 1969 and it appears that 6O52 (21.30 Uddingston-Cliffe) was manned by a Hither Green crew forward onto the SR. It was a 47 working by then, frequently a Gateshead one.

6S64 was a 40 working with both York and Haymarket engines featuring. But Freddie Orr took a 46 (164) north 40" late on 12/11/69 when 265 failed on departure with a power surge.

It must have changed either very late in 1968 or early 1969, because I saw 4S04 on the 25th October 1968 when D185 was in charge.

That was one of my last visits, mainly because I was ordered to spend more time studying for my O levels.

[Andy W]

May 1969 look favourite for the change - I don't have a class 6 in the 1969 casualty book before then and then the book is full of them!

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Was there a back working! to the Scotch Goods ! ie and English Goods and if so what time did it arrive at KX goods.

manna

[Hermit 109]

Hi Manna, if there was a corresponding up service, I don't know who would have worked it. I don't think there were any up freight services that would have had a single crew from Newcastle, the normal practice would have been multiple crew changes at various yards en-route. The down "Scotch Goods" provided the means to get the London crew and engine to Newcastle for the back working the next day.
We used to relieve an Ardsley crew on an up freight at Ferme Park, which was the longest up freight working by a single crew that I can remember. They always had an immaculate A1 on the train (the only A1's I ever worked that had the steam dynamo working to provide electrical lighting). I think the Ardsley men went into lodge, but I don't know what train they worked back.
I have unearthed an old B/W photo of 60052 Prince Palatine on the Scotch Goods c1958/59, pulling away from a signal check at Marshmoor.

[hq1hitchin]

G'Day Gents

Was there a back working! to the Scotch Goods ! ie and English Goods and if so what time did it arrive at KX goods.

manna

From memory, there was a 6E65, the 18:30 Millerhill to Kings X Goods, due there about 06:00? If it was running late and not able to get past Cambridge Junction by 06:30 then it would be held there until after the morning peak. A far classier train was 4E47, the Aberdeen - Kings X Goods fish, due there about 00:30, formed of Blue Spot fish vans with roller bearings. No corresponding down working for that train, though - think in our time the empties returned on 6S64. None of these trains were anything like heavily loaded by the 1970s, just hanging on, really and The Goods Yard was a shadow of its former self. To quote Johnny May, then D.I. for Kings X, "We've now got a goods yard that's worth a lot more as a car park"

[Hermit 109]

Hello hq1hitchin, I think your memory is better than mine. After I posted my reply I got to thinking about the freight services. The Aberdeen fish was timed almost at express passenger speeds, there was also an up Hull/Grimsby fish train but I can't remember if it was roller bearing fitted and there were meat trains from Aberdeen also. Referring back to train crew workings, at K.X we had a lodge turn on a freight service to Hull, worked throughout by a B1 which survived until the demise of steam in 1963. Another was a freight lodging turn to York, on which I had one trip. I have little memory of it, other than running into York Yard South where we were relieved, and walking through the streets of York to our lodgings for the night and working back to K.X goods next day. That turn survived until about 1964.
Another more glamourous lodge turn that survived to the mid 60's (but not a freight working) was the "Yorkshire Pullman" evening service to Leeds and back the next day. The lodge at Leeds was an ex nurses' home on Domestic Street and we shared it with Midland crews. The pullman staff also lodged there. But these turns were throwbacks to the days of steam and they all finally disappeared with the exception of the Newcastle lodge turns which lasted well into the 70's.

[Mickey]

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[StevieG]

Those two distants on the right, one above the other, were levers 1 and 3, and applied to the similarly configured stacked home signals (2 & 4), the right hand pair of the seven on 'The Ladykillers' gantry at the exit of Copenhagen Tunnel.

Each signal gave the 'all clear' to enter a specific one of the two 'signalled' roads in the 'North Yard (officially Nos. 3 to 8 Arch Sidings).
I forget which were the two sidings in question - I think it might have been 3 and 8 : I say 'signalled' - in fact Goods and Mineral box set up the same points, facing point locks, and disc signals for both routes; it depended which ground frame was operated by the shunting staff, down in the yard (to show/give the G&M signalman a 'slot'/indication of which road the yard points had been set to), that determined which G&M signals were pulled for the train.)