Kings Cross

[StevieG]

In my very early days at Kings Cross the Roster Clerk used to come to the box and we were supposed to wire the orders out. As I was inexperienced, one of the signalmen used to do it for me. Receiving and sending train running was easy, sending words and sentences was a different kettle of fish! The practice stopped within weeks of my starting there as presumably telephones had reached the crucial places for conveying the orders.

Other information we dealt with was info on attached vans which came from Peterboro' tele office. I remember one regular on a Sunday evening was "COW TWO B EIGHTEEN ONE B G PARCELS POST"

John

Interesting John. I hadn't realised the men's orders were still wired out as late in 'the day of telegraphy' as that. And I'd overlooked traffic wires such as you quote. Thanks v.m.

[John C]

Hi Hermit,

I can't recall that Fred (Orr) had any antipathy towards Signalmen, in fact in my experience, quiite the opposite. No; Fred's pet hate was Guards - couldn't stand them.

I think it stemmed from the fact that his old dad had at some time been a Guard (somewhere in the north west I believe), and one of Fred's abiding childhood memories was of his dad packing his work bag, complete with carpet slippers so that he could be as comfortable as poss whilst on the road - and them silly b*****s up front doing all the work!

Thats the story that Fred told me anyhow, but for the Guards benefit he used to twist it slightly and say "Bloody guards, huh; my sister used to pack a cheese sandwich in her hanbag and do your job during the war". He'd then turn to me and discreetly whisper "Didn't have a sister really"! Fred really was a fantastic mate and friend.

John C.

[Mickey]

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[manna]

G'Day Gents

Yeah not much fun walking round a 20 wagon freightliner and doing a brake test in the pouring rain at 3am or trying to check all the tickets on a 12 car train out of Waterloo at 5pm and you can hardly get into your own train and you've only done 3/4's of the train by the time you've got to Winchester (first stop) ???

Or when your nice and snug in the back cab, and the driver comes back to tell you after a stop at the signals ' that the tail light has gone out' !! and you are wandering about the North London line at 1am in a roaring gale trying to light a tail light at the end of a 50 wagon train. Ohh the fun of being a guard, pays the bills though !!

manna

[Hermit 109]

Hi Stevie G, thanks for the info, I would never had thought of looking under that thread for the Hatfield accident. I have never been able to find an official report on the incident, but I remembered Charley Kilford well, he was the first of a few footplate men I knew, who died in accidents during my time on the railway. There but for the grace..... I think we all had some hairy moments from time to time but lived to tell the tale.

[Hermit 109]

Hello John C, I must have mixed Fred up with another driver, the passage of time plays tricks on the old memories, but there was certainly someone at that time who relished the chance to let the signalman know exactly what he thought, maybe the name will come to me at some time in the future although the name Jack Simpson is beginning to ring a bell.
Looking through my diary's I had quite a few trips with Fred over the years, the last one was in June 73 on the 13.10 to Leeds & back with the 17.30 flyer to London.

[Mickey]

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[Hermit 109]

Going back to Culross Buildings (Jock Cairns lived here), the steps up from the milk yard let to a passageway out to Battlebridge Road, through a conventional looking front door as I remember. It was the recognised walking route to top shed from the passenger loco and from Battlebridge Road we would cross into Camley Street, climb some steps onto the coal staithes, cross the canal on the rail bridge and turn left for the signing on lobby. I don't think Top Shed had changed much for many years, the general office was a step back in time, the chief clerk Mr Fryer, had his desk on a raised dais so he could look down on his staff and naturally all the offices were heated by coal fires. Peter Townend had just moved on when I started and was replaced by Harry Billings, the only Loco Inspector I can remember the name of was Ralph Ockenden, he passed me for firing. The LDC as I remember were Ron Kennedy, Denis Cadywould, Johnny Hill & I think Len Hammons. Bob Lunnis was on the ASLEF executive.
The loco foremen & runners at that time were Jack Luty, Bob Harris, Alf Buckman, Jack Dwight, Millichamp, Ken Gregg, Ken Scott, George Hagland, Sid Booth and someone who we used to call Laughing Boy, can't remember the name, who eventually moved to Old Oak where I believe he was sacked for some kind of fiddle.
Ken D'Ath was a driver when I knew him, who was apt to take a fairly liberal view of speed restrictions, although I'm sure he would deny that. I was surprised to learn that he had been appointed a loco inspector and later in charge of the training school at Ilford.

[StevieG]

A couple of possible connections I can think of (IIRC) from the just-listed names :

Sid Booth = 'Side-rod Sid' ? - one of the foremen at 'Passenger Loco' by 1974.

Alf Buckman : By the late '60s, one of the regular shunter-signalmen in Five Arch box 'up the Goods Yard' (KX), a mere throne's stow away from Top Shed, was known as 'Buck' : One and the same person ?

[Andy W]

In the 1970's I used to cut through from the Pass Loco or Culross to the Goods Yard by using the gate at the far end of the road motors yard - brought you out just opposite the entrance to the Goods Yard.

All these names from my youth at KX West Side - funnily enough I was transcribing DMU details from the KX Division Traction Casualty record books (1966-81) onto spreadsheets as I was reading the posts and just flicking through the book for 1969/70, the names come alive from the pages. Some were "regulars"(!), some flit in and out but the very first entry for 1/1/70 has 1L09 the 1020 KX-Leeds in trouble at Peterborough with 1765 low in power. Driver D'Ath only sustained a 3 minute delay after changing locos to 1104. Nice work, Ken.

Mind you he was good at quick changes and recovering time. On 9/11/69 he had to change engines at Peterborough on 1N10, the 11.00 KX-Newcastle. 9018 flashed over on both main gens and he went forward with 1506. Only 7 minutes delay.

Freddie Orr had a bit of bother on 17/11/69 with 1L05 0820 KX-Leeds on departure. 185 suffered a burnt out contactor coil and 22 minutes delay had to be incurred while it was declared a knacker, he took it off the train and got 9018 out of the pass loco to replace it.

There was another Orr about at this time. G.Orr of KX had trouble on the very same day with Rolls Royce car 51159 on 2556, the 0903 KX-Hertford. 12 minutes delay on departure because of flat batteries - it had thrown its alternator belts.

All these entries were written in the neat handwriting of Peter Roberts, probably the best technical clerk I ever saw or worked with on BR and by the time I got to GN House (1978), he was the No 2 in the tech clerical section ("the KM") doing the road motors job and yes, our boss Cyril Beal sat in front of all of us, his desk on a slightly raised platform!

[Hermit 109]

Hello Andy W, I didn't know you had all those details at your fingertips. looking through my logs revealed several occasions over the years when we fell down with loco failure, or alternatively gave assistance. Perhaps the worst was 16/9/71 when we failed at Biggleswade with the up Scotsman 1E05 with my regular mate J Arlow. D9021 loss of power is all I've written down, assisted to K.X by D1554.
There are several others I could relate, but one incident when we could have failed the loco but carried on regardless comes to mind. 17/5/73 with John Hill working the 07.45 K.X - N/castle 1N06, the speedo on D9003 packed up as we were passing Potters Bar. We diplomatically decided not to declare a failure as the loco was otherwise fine, so we carried on and had a great run, never more than a minute or two adrift and reported the defect after an on-time arrival at N/castle and said the speedo had just dropped out crossing the K/E bridge.

[Andy W]

In between entering hoards of 1969 Rolls Royce unit failures this lunchtime, I was thinking of what Hermit said about George Elliott and had a look at what he suffered in 1969/70.

On 4/9/69 he was taking 1L05 0820 KX-Leeds north with 1866. A hydrostatic connection blew and 13 minutes were lost by Hitchin where 5587 was attached. A further 3 minutes were lost at Peterborough where 1972 took the train forward.

1866 was better known in later years as the engine that had to be renumbered after a woman pestered BR that an engine numbered 47216 was going to be involved in a fatal train accident. It became 47299 and shortly afterwards hit a DMU at Wrawby Junction, with fatal consequences.

On 23/1/70 he took 1L06 0920 KX-Leeds north with 1975. Loss of power meant he was 17 late leaving Hatfield with 5588 going forward.

But it was the incident ten days earlier on 13/1/70 that must have been a bit more scary. Coming south with 1A33 1750 Leeds-KX with 9007, he hit something on the track which holed both RH fuel tanks and the boiler water tank. 5905 assisted forward (yes, a big deltic & baby combo!), the total delay being 25 minutes.

Hermit, your diary dates had me scampering up into the loft (& scampering very quickly down - it was freezing up there!) and the total delay on 16/9/71 was 43 minutes. I don't know what caused the loss of power on 9021 as it would be Haymarket that concluded the casualty. 1554 was indeed the assisting engine.

But it was the 17/5/73 trip with 9003 that got me interested. There would be nothing in the casualty book, thanks to J.Hill, but I have the 1973 KX control cards for the racehorses and it was stopped at 1200 at Gateshead on 17/5/73. Speedo defective and rough riding were both booked and after greasing the bogies and replacing a broken wire on the wheel wear compensator, it was released at 1630 on the same day.

How about that - repair book feedback after 37 years!

[Hermit 109]

Hi Andy W,

Thanks for your response, I'm mighty impressed. I had a quick check through my diary & all the incidents you found re: George Elliot were on days when I was doing something else, plus George was always quite lucky by falling in for the odd buckshee mileage job. However after I had moved away from the 'Cross to pastures new, George told me of a strange incident involving a Deltic. He was working an up train somewhere in the Crow Park area when suddenly the whole of the driver's side cab sliding window flew away leaving a very draughty and noisy cab environment. That would be 1974 onward, they were always a problem to keep closed. Likewise the cab doors, all Deltics carried shunters brake sticks to wedge the doors closed on the run.
I could furnish you with lots of failures but I can see you are a busy man although I know who to ask if I need any inside info. The only time I ever had occasion to visit GN House was to attend an inquiry. Very early on in my career my driver let me have a go working some empty stock into the 'Cross for an evening service. We had a brush type 2 fitted with an EQ brake and running into the old platform 8 I released the brake too early approaching the stops and couldn't re-apply it in time. The result was we met the stops at very low speed, no apparent damage but the C/W cancelled the service so the train could be examined, hence the call to GN House. I can't remember when, other than early sixties, I think my driver took the rap, but those EQ brakes were no fun.

[Andy W]

Those few incidents we have gone through are a real illustration of how good those drivers were. Granted the trains weren't as tightly timed as they are now but the willingness to have a go and do their best, whatever the circumstances, shines through.

Unfortunately, windows falling out and cab door issues became an increasing problem with the Deltics during the mid 1970's. The locos had done around 2.5 million hard miles each and the structure was beginning to show signs of distress.

Only a few got the Heavy General treatment so these faults persisted. I once had to help free off a cab door at KX - wedging them with rolled up newspapers was a common trick but that did have longer term consequences with those (increasingly worn) curved doors.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Some great memories being brought out, a couple of names jumped out at me, Johnny Hill, who was in No1 link when I was at the 'Cross' and Denis Cadywould, did'nt he all ways wear a flat cap?

Well here's my contribution Driver C Kirton, I never met this driver but I have just found out that, he is my sister-in-laws grandfather, sorry for the picture quality

manna