Returning to Grantham

[Andy W]

I don't think the web will affect sales of a book of this kind because it will have a much wider audiance than the usual web surfers. The social history contained in these pictures is huge and my real fear is what size any publication would be (& therefore the likely market), as you only really get to appreciate the pictures in a larger format so you can absorb all that highly defined detail.

My wife, who is not railway minded at all, has been transfixed by some of the stuff in these shots. Me, I'm still remembering Kunzle cakes!

[Mallard]

I don't think the web will affect sales of a book of this kind because it will have a much wider audiance than the usual web surfers. The social history contained in these pictures is huge and my real fear is what size any publication would be (& therefore the likely market), as you only really get to appreciate the pictures in a larger format so you can absorb all that highly defined detail.

My wife, who is not railway minded at all, has been transfixed by some of the stuff in these shots. Me, I'm still remembering Kunzle cakes!

Book Law have managed to produce some super books on the Nottingham area. Perhaps they would be interested in a 'series' for Grantham and area. I thinks there is enough enthusiast interest in ECML matters to provide an audience.
Incidentally, I too love these postings and my home during these times was Plymouth!!!!! However, I travelled between Kings Cross & Newcastle (A3 change at Grantham) and return(Miles Beevor at the stops at the X) in May 1962 and have been hooked ever since!
36E (now!)

[52D]

I was rather hoping that Howard of Kestrel railway books might pick up on this thread, i might have to push it a little more in his direction.

[rob237]

Are Pendragon Books still in existence?
Their publishing, with large size illustrations, featuring the work of the late Colin Walker has,IMO, rarely been bettered.
Would have been the ideal format for Grantham volume(s)...

Cheers
Robt P.

[2512silverfox]

Pendragon was the imprint owned by David Jenkinson. When David died, the imprint was taken over by Mike Blakemore who publishes Backtrack and a number of other books.

[61070]

I’ve been following the recent discussion with keen interest, but I’ve been rather preoccupied with various other things until this evening.

First of all my thanks to workev and others for comparing my father’s photography with that of Keith Pirt. It means a lot to have his work (and maybe, to a minor extent, my interpretation of it through the digitisation process) stand comparison with that of one of the best railway photographers of that era whose work I have often admired. I haven’t seen the Grantham Colour Portfolio yet, but I do hope to pick one up soon.

As many are suggesting, it would be good to move on towards a printed album. I have this very much in mind and I welcome the several suggestions of publishers. As I hope to explain below, I view the publication of the photos through this forum, and in presentations and exhibitions, as a vital preliminary step, and it is one which has enriched the collection immensely.

To explain a little. I inherited a collection of pictures which, obviously, have a very personal association for me. As I have mentioned before, my father took photographs because he enjoyed photography generally. He had a general background interest in railways but, primarily, the railway at Grantham - and the people who worked and travelled on it - provided interesting subjects for his hobby. He was not aiming to maintain a detailed photographic record of railway activity.

When I began to scan the pictures, and I started to appreciate something of their potential interest, I realised that I had very little data. Most of the pictures were undated and, while the b/w negs were in some kind of sequence (because they were in strips of six which, generally, remained associated with those of the rest of the same film), the slides were mostly mixed up with other pictures. There was no information about the workings or train services depicted (other than that which was obvious from the pictures), and I knew the names of none of the railway staff who are the very subject of so many of the pictures.

To make such a collection truly meaningful required research, and it seemed clear that the best way to acquire the information I needed would be to share the pictures, including the detail in them, in a way that has brought enjoyment to me and, I’d like to think from some of the responses, to the contributors of the information that has been so abundantly forthcoming. Sure, there are risks in sharing the pictures on an internet forum, but they are risks that, broadly, I’ve been content to run. I did consider ‘spoiling’ strategies, such as adding a watermark, but that felt a bit mean, and life’s too short for meanness. When I think back, we went to Grantham as regularly as we did 45 or more years ago only because we were made welcome there by the railwaymen of the day (as many of the pictures testify). With all the changes being wrought by the Modernisation Plan (including the closure of 34F, 'the loco'), and then the shock of the Beeching Report, they could have been forgiven for being much less tolerant of ‘outsiders’. A continuation of that spirit of generosity is, I believe, the basis on which this thread has worked so well. From virtually nothing I now have a document of approaching 40,000 words to support the pictures, which will become part of Grantham's industrial and social heritage.

One final point, which is that it’s the interactivity of this medium that makes it so engaging. I think Andy W’s recent line - about his wife enjoying the pictures and his fond recollection of Kunzle cakes - kind of sums it up. Reading it gave both pleasure on the one hand and amusement on the other. That something seemingly so insignificant as a box of cakes on a platform trolley, (or, to refer to another example, a publication advertised on a station bookstall) should become a point of discussion, shared interest and collective enjoyment is something that just could not happen if that photograph was only available in the pages of a book, or indeed on a basic photo website.

The key thing, of course, is that such a forum as this is available and so, while I’m on about generosity and sharing, we must always be mindful of Richard’s (and his many contributors’) generosity in compiling and maintaining this place of information exchange and enlightenment.

[jwealleans]

At the Taunton show I acquired a copy of 'LNER Steam at Grantham' by Arthur Cawston, published (I think) by Wild Swan. The pictures are from the 1930s but I think you'd find it interesting not just for the content but because it's quite similar to what I think you're envisaging doing with these pictures.

[2512silverfox]

In reaching your decision to go ahead or not, you might like to consider that the photos have actually been viewed plus or minus 100 times on this forum. Possibly more than once by an individual. A book run is usually 3000 copies so that there are many who have not seen them and therefore I am sure that, from the right publisher, the potential is there.

[strang steel]

Well, I can only give my personal opinion; but having looked at the photos on this thread a number of times, I would not hesitate to buy a book on the subject with all of those pictures in it.

I love railway books, and no matter how often the photo has been reproduced online, there is nothing to compare to the thrill I get from turning the pages and seeing them in print.

[Flamingo]

Let me add my voice to the lobby in favour of publishing your father's Grantham pictures. besides their subject interest, what makes them more valuable is the background details such as putting names to faces and dates to events.These things are not found in every railway album. Look through one of Eric Treacy's for example, and count how many pictures he dates or identifies the train in his photographs. That 'how many' should read how few.

If you need contacts, the RCTS local branch might be worth a shout. Also I feel sure Roger Hardingham of Kingfisher Publications would be interested in publishing an album of Grantham pictures, He likes subjects of local interest and his books are produced to a high standard. I can give you Roger's contact details if you need them.

[52D]

Put my name down for a first edition. I hope you do publish and the book creates a new sub genre of railway interest. I take great delight in reading the non railway observations as well as the rail orientated ones.
I was hoping that Mr Bs excellent Teeside thread would generate a similar response.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

I wonder if all our weird and wonderful comments will be included in the forth coming book ! if they are, then general public would surely shake there collective heads over our comments about rivets, 'zoom' ice lollies cakes and newspaper dates, ME, I love it
manna

[Howard]

I was rather hoping that Howard of Kestrel railway books might pick up on this thread, i might have to push it a little more in his direction.

Thanks for the nudge, George... I'm afraid I hadn't been following this thread... so many threads, so little time!

We're always interested to hear about new titles, and there's no doubt that this subject has generated a huge amount of interest on here. Judging by the quality of the photographs, it's not difficult to understand why.

As for a book - well - we'd certainly be interested to entertain any proposal on this, or any other topic. There seems to be a wealth of material here, not to mention a potential 40,000 words, so we're not talking about a modest project. With a number of books already published on this specific area (already mentioned in this thread) I might be questioning how much more the market could stand (and it's not an area that I know much about, either).

That said, if 61070 would like to get in touch, I'd be delighted to discuss possibilities - either a PM from here or a note to the email address on our website: http://www.kestrelrailwaybooks.co.uk

Cheers, Howard.

[61070]

It's the incidental stories that make compiling this thread so worthwhile, so if there is a book surely many of them will go in. On the Zoom lolly card front there may be some developments to report soon! If you remember my album is short of two (out of 40) - No.18 (CR 4-2-2 No.123) and No.38 (SR 0-6-0 No. C38 - presumably aka 33038). I mentioned this at a show I recently gave at Grantham Museum and a card collector who was there is now on the trail of my two missing cards.

I've just got hold of LNER Steam at Grantham, and what a marvellous read it is. Have to admit that I hadn't been aware of it before, so thanks for the tip-off jwealleans. I'm grateful for the further advice on potential publishers.

At the show I referred to above, or rather at an afternoon session beforehand, I had the pleasure of meeting ROY@34F and several other former Grantham railwaymen. I've been glad to scan for Roy some photos that he has of his time at 34F, and he has encouraged me to post them here on his behalf. I'll attach them to a separate post below.

Meantime, for A1 fans here are a few shots I don't think you will have seen before:

1. A southbound express hauled by No.60130 Kestrel of Copley Hill (56C) shed in Leeds.
May 24th 1962

2. Another up passenger train is hauled by another bird, No.60139 Sea Eagle, based at Doncaster (36A) motive power depot.
Late June 1962

3. English Electric Type 4 diesel electric locomotive No.D279 appears to be being shunted or towed by class A1 No.60133 Pommern, which was based at Copley Hill (Leeds) depot at the time. There's the shed outlet signal again, above the Type 4's cab.
Grantham shed had no facilities for servicing or repairing diesel locomotives, so those that failed in traffic and were replaced by a standby steam locomotive usually had to be towed away to one of the new traction maintenance depots, where there were the specialist skills and equipment needed. At this time D279 was based at Gateshead (52A) motive power depot.
The fireman looking out of the locomotive's cab is John Aldous. John recognised himself when I showed this photograph at a meeting of the Grantham Railway Society on 11th June 2009. John was born near Grantham but he grew up in Suffolk. Having moved back to Ancaster with his family, at the age of 18 John joined the railway at Grantham 'Loco' where, after a short period as a cleaner, he became a fireman. When Grantham shed was due to close John applied to transfer to Stratford in east London to continue working on the footplate. This was agreed, but in the event he ended up leaving the railway to work at RAF Cranwell. Just a few months after he started there he received a letter asking him to consider returning to the railway at Grantham. This he would have seriously considered, but for a union requirement that his turns as a fireman would not be counted and he would effectively be re-joining as a cleaner. John spent the rest of his working life in local industry, including a long spell at Aveling Barford's. He made a telling remark about the cohesion of the railway community by telling me that, although his working life on the railway was quite brief and ended in 1963, he is more often stopped in the town by former colleagues from 'the loco' than by people from any of the other places where he subsequently worked.
Late June 1962

4. No.60158 Aberdonian of Doncaster (36A) motive power depot passes through the station southbound.
30th April 1964

[61070]

I'm pleased to post the following four photographs on behalf of ROY@34F:

1. The B1 at Skegness was a Sunday trip on 28 July '63, with myself as fireman, and my girlfriend and my aunty as passengers. It was taken by my driver, Jack Charles.

2 & 3. The two shots of 60048 are me, one with Roger Simons, a fellow fireman.

4. The one of 60126 is me again of course, with drivers Bill Leadbetter and Eric Ranby walking by, probably going off duty as the engine is on 'London road' facing north.

These photos were all taken mid 1963. 60048 was standing "main line pilot", south facing, in a short spur off the "angle", near the back of the water softener. There would be a north facing pilot in a loop off the angle a bit further along, nearer the drivers' mess room, i.e. one engine one side, and one the other side of the road coming off the angle. The odd thing to me is that the south facing one, if needed, would have to go forward out of the siding, then reverse to get out via the angle exit road: more time consuming, especially with screw reversers of course, than if the points were facing the other way, and they could set off straight out of the siding to the loco exit! Photos 2, 3 & 4 were taken by Fred Harris, a fellow fireman, who had a "posh" decent camera, unlike most of us at the time, of course.