Kings Cross

[Andy W]

I have a copy of Circular 403 (18/6/44) "Reporting Trains and Engines in Advance" - a poster sized circular for main line boxes between Kings Cross and Werrington Junction. It seems, from the comments above, that a few things didn't change that much in the ensuing 25 years!

All trains had to be reported on in accordance with the circular except for passenger trains under 10 minutes late. Even then, some boxes had to report forward all the times of certain passenger trains.

As an example of what was included let's look at Hatfield 1 - class "Z" (i.e. 4 & 1-3-1) to Wood Green 4, Finsbury Park 6, Holloway North Up. "Z" to Kings Cross (late or not). "Y" (3-1) stopping at Potters Bar and then running fast to Finsbury Park, and "X" (2-2-1) to Cemetery. All trains except "Z" to Potters Bar. "V" (3-2 and LE running at class A speed), "U" (1-4 & 4-1) and "T" (3) to Marshmoor.

For info, the missing (for Hatfield No 1) class "W" refered to (5) and LE running at No 2 speed.

Kings Cross received "Z" from Crescent, Hitchin South (late or not), Hatfield 1 (late or not), "Y" from Potters Bar (when they left Hatfield), "X" from Holloway North Up (with description of train), all South London and Farringdon Street trains from Holloway North Up and all light engines from Belle Isle Up (with what required for).

No doubt there were many, many alterations over the years but the basic principle of the system remained. A very solid way of working.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[StevieG]

Of course, go back just a few years from when we were on the scene, Micky, and the S/N network, as well as the "MT" (Train reports) messages, was also carrying telegrams and other messages.

It seemed to me that, on the 'GN' (other pre-grouping companies may have had different arrangements; e.g., I've heard the GER had more telegraphs in booking offices than in their other establishments), the signal boxes at stations had become their communications centres, and I think that could be why some moderate boxes also used to have telegraph lads, like New Southgate.

I believe telegrams included those concerning things like yard wagon reports (could include a long list of numbers I'd think), imposition and withdrawal of goods traffic restrictions (ever hear 'GOSLING' or 'BYRAG' still used in later conversations from Control about despatch of freight to certain destinations?), and [ the ones which apparently got the attention of all the reliefmen doing GP (General Purpose)-type work ] 'next week's orders' (rostering of each relief man on where/when/what their duties were to be through the following week), in order for each to compare for perceived fair/unfair treatment against what their colleagues were getting, in terms of the duties each was being given as being good / bad / most lucrative / &/or including nights or Sunday work.

I expect 'DEBRIS' was well received for oneself as it denoted a day with no duty yet allocated, with the chance of still being 'spare' come the day.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[John C]

Hi all,

I, like a lot of others it would seem, found this site quite by chance. Looking at all the different posts I saw so many names that I remember from my secondman days at the Cross, I just had to put in my two-pennorth.

I came to KX in 1970 having been made redundant at Watford and firstly having a six month spell at Stewarts Lane on the Southern (Sorry, you Southern boys, but I couldn't stand it at the Lane, mainly because there was so little for a secondman to do - and I was then too young to be a driver).

One of the names mentioned in these posts was Archie Cowlard, a real stickler for doing things by the book, though I recall my first secondman duty at the Cross was as his mate on a local from Potters Bar. It was still the steam heat season but I'd not been trained on the Spanner's. Archie said not to worry, he'd sort it out, which he did. I never did get trained on the Spanners, but, lets face it, there wasn't much to learn on them - nothing like a Stones or Clayton.

I had a fantastic time at KX with two wonderful years in the Leeds link with Freddie Orr (is he still around does anyone know?) before moving into the Newcastle Lodge Link with John (Polly) Perkins. I then went back to Watford as a driver in 1973.

Well, will sign off for now, but am looking forward to many 'conversation' in the future.

Best Regards, John Crisp.

Bes

[Mickey]

Deleted

[John C]

Yep, I remember Peter Green; oh God, so many names spring to mind I could fill a whole page with 'em!

I didn't know too much about Pete, I can't remember ever being his mate, but I know if I get my diaries down from the loft I'd be able to confirm.

Rgds,

John.

[manna]

G'day Gents

I remember Peter Green, a lot of secondmen were a bit scared of Peter,as I'm pretty sure Peter was/is gay, I always found him to be a gentleman and a bit of a laugh, the strange thing I found with drivers is that when you were booked with some drivers you KNEW something would happen, ie- Archie Cowlard

manna

[Mickey]

Deleted

[thesignalman]

and [ the ones which apparently got the attention of all the reliefmen doing GP (General Purpose)-type work ] 'next week's orders' (rostering of each relief man on where/when/what their duties were to be through the following week), in order for each to compare for perceived fair/unfair treatment against what their colleagues were getting, in terms of the duties each was being given as being good / bad / most lucrative / &/or including nights or Sunday work.

In my very early days at Kings Cross the Roster Clerk used to come to the box and we were supposed to wire the orders out. As I was inexperienced, one of the signalmen used to do it for me. Receiving and sending train running was easy, sending words and sentences was a different kettle of fish! The practice stopped within weeks of my starting there as presumably telephones had reached the crucial places for conveying the orders.

Other information we dealt with was info on attached vans which came from Peterboro' tele office. I remember one regular on a Sunday evening was "COW TWO B EIGHTEEN ONE B G PARCELS POST"

John

[Hermit 109]

Hi everyone, I was going through my old diary's during the time I was on the footplate at King's Cross and came across the name Charlie Kilford (or Pussy Cat Willum to his mates). Does anyone remember the fatal accident at Hatfield in 1968 where poor old Charlie and his secondman, who's name I can't remember, were killed. I passed by the scene shortly after the accident and saw the class 31 they were working, with both cabs sliced neatly off the loco. Story was that Charlie was working a loose coupled freight when on the approach to Hatfield on the down line, the air brake on the class 31 was unable to control the weight of the train and it ran out of control into a dead end siding in Hatfield yard with a single wagon on the stops at the end of the siding. This wagon rebounded off the stops when the train hit it and sliced the cab end right off killing Charlie and his secondman. The leading wagon on his train similarly sliced the cab off the rear of the loco. I have never been able to find any information regarding the incident, although I believe excessive speed was suggested as the main cause (not brake force). Perhaps one of you signalmen chaps can throw some light on this seemingly forgotten incident.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[Hermit 109]

Hello John C,

We must both have been pounding the iron rails north at the same time. I well remember Freddie Orr, a great character, I went as secondman to him a few times. Don't tell Micky, but wasn't it Fred who hated being held up by adverse signals, always blamed the signalman, and his favourite saying was "they shouldn't put roofs on signal boxes then the signalmen might stay alert"?

Like you I had two wonderful years in the Leeds link with George Elliot from 1969 to 1971, then a further two years in the Newcastle lodge link with Jean Arlow until I passed as a driver in November 1973, eventually leaving King's Cross in 1974 for a drivers position at Waterloo.

Although I spent 42 years on the railway before finally finishing up as a Depot Manager, it was the 12 years or so at King's Cross that hold the fondest memories for me, I met some great railwaymen and my wife and myself used to meet George Elliot and his wife socially as well as being workmates. George retired early & emigrated to Australia. He sadly is no longer with us, but I am still in touch with Nora his wife and have enjoyed visits to Adelaide to see her.

Seeing familiar names on this forum brings back lots of memories and like you, I could probably fill a few pages with names and anecdotes

[Mickey]

Deleted

[StevieG]

Hi everyone, I was going through my old diary's during the time I was on the footplate at King's Cross and came across the name Charlie Kilford (or Pussy Cat Willum to his mates). Does anyone remember the fatal accident at Hatfield in 1968 where poor old Charlie and his secondman, who's name I can't remember, were killed. .... "

Hermit ... ,
If you have a look in the "...LNER Discussion >> LNER Locomotives and Rolling Stock" forum, in the "IVATT LARGE ATLANTICS" topic (Don't ask), on page 3 ( ivatt-large-atlantics-t4047s30.html ) there are about seven posts about this accident (of between 29th Nov. and Dec. 03rd) mixed in among those more related to that thread.