So what shall we name the new P2?

[Atlantic 3279]

Well let's hope the bold and ambitious approach of building two locos works out then. Perhaps it will be just the thing to capture the imaginations of some of our obscenely over-paid and appallingly behaved "celebrities", financiers and "captain's of industry", many of whom could easily finance the whole scheme out of a single year's salary and still be very well-off just on their "small change"! Why not offer to name the loco after one of them, if they care to stump up a major portion of the funding - how about that Wayne Whatsisname who was in the papers last week, greedily looking for £10+ million per year to kick a bag of wind around the field a couple of times per week, while those of stuck in the land of reality all have to make do with reduced incomes.....
I must be suffering from the preference for caution that develops as age increases, as I increasingly think in terms of the merits of modest targets, to be reached by methods involving minimum risk and difficulty.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Well let's hope the bold and ambitious approach of building two locos works out then. Perhaps it will be just the thing to capture the imaginations of some of our obscenely over-paid and appallingly behaved "celebrities", financiers and "captain's of industry", many of whom could easily finance the whole scheme out of a single year's salary and still be very well-off just on their "small change"! Why not offer to name the loco after one of them, if they care to stump up a major portion of the funding - how about that Wayne Whatsisname who was in the papers last week, greedily looking for £10+ million per year to kick a bag of wind around the field a couple of times per week, while those of stuck in the land of reality all have to make do with reduced incomes.....
I must be suffering from the preference for caution that develops as age increases, as I increasingly think in terms of the merits of modest targets, to be reached by methods involving minimum risk and difficulty.

No disagreement from me Graeme on Wayne "I'm proof that we're descended from apes" Rooney and his greed, but I do feel the amount of work reportedly done by the Mikado trust, certainly, stands them in good stead for building a P2, and likewise, the experience with Tornado stands the A1 Trust in good stead for building their own.

It's a free country, and you support them, or not, as the case may be - as with every project, it's a matter of choice. If it catches the imagination of the public, both railway related and general - that's grand - but if not, then time will tell.

On the subject of football - I quite like my league 1 football with Charlton Athletic, and wouldn't swap it for anything. Less prima donnas when you have no money to spend on players...!!!

[notrom]

Cock o' the North is such a beautiful, evocative name that it would be a great shame to lose it because what the A1 Trust may build will not be an exact replica. Cock o' the North would also be the perfect name to stir the public's interest and their wallets. What about Cock of the North?

[giner]

What/who was Cock o' The North named after originally, anyway? I have this fanciful idea it must have been a nickname for a highland chieftain.

[Bill Bedford]

What/who was Cock o' The North named after originally, anyway? I have this fanciful idea it must have been a nickname for a highland chieftain.

Yep, Google is you friend -- The Chiefs of Clan Gordon, or more specifically Alexander Gordon, 4th Duke of Gordon,

[Sir Nigel Gresley]

In keeping with the "Grandfather's Axe" principle, beloved of most British railway companies, and the LNER in particular, if the builders want to recreate "Cock o' the North", and set out with that intention, then "Cock o' the North" it will be, especially if it carries a small piece of the original, be it worksplate, numberplate, whistle or even a nut and bolt, for added authenticity. One need only look at the example of "Grand Parade" (after the Castle Carey - Scotland, not Somerset - accident), or the B16 rebuilding programme.

As for improvements and non-availability of original materials or patterns, I would hazard a guess that "Grand Parade" mk II had some features which were not as on the original. Likewise, I should imagine that my favourite J72, the York station pilot 68736, had very little, if any, of the original, and probably incorporated some improved fabrication techniques.

From the outset it was intended that "Tornado" would be the 50th A1, so "Grandfather's Axe" does not apply.

If you think this is a complex subject, you should try tracing the origin of some of the East German 50.35 and 52.80 locos - some of them have been 3 or 4 different locos at some time in their existence!

[Bill Bedford]

One need only look at the example of "Grand Parade" (after the Castle Carey - Scotland, not Somerset - accident).

The only difference between Grand Parade and other A1/A3s was that new frames of that loco were erected before that original loco got to the shops.

[mr B]

Ye din'na say cock ye say co' , Cockburnspath is pronounced Co'burns'path (ECML near Berwick) , like wise the same pronounciation for a blend of whiskey.

mr B

[Atlantic 3279]

Tongue in cheek, at the risk of trotting out a corny old joke, and I hope without causing offence to anybody.......that sounds like a load of old "co" to me

Well I bet somebody else would have said it if I hadn't.

[52A]

So was Moscow originally Moscock?

[giner]

So now it's "Co o' the North"? Not for me, cock! (Dahn sarf expression:-))

[Atlantic 3279]

So was Moscow originally Moscock?

Yes, as per the old Cockburn's Special Reserve port advertisement

Although I admit that the term locockmotive doesn't trip off the tongue very easily.......

[Bryan]

So now it's "Co o' the North"? Not for me, cock! (Dahn sarf expression:-))

When do we start mooing?

Like a Co

[giner]

LOL! When the cows come home, I suppose.

[third-rail]

we must be trying to milk this subject