Great Central Locomotives

[jwealleans]

(Discussion brought over from Classifieds section).

Rob,

The Kit Connection parts I have look much better quality than the unbuilt McGowan C4 I have. They are also on first examination identical to the Craftsman B4 kit. They must be from the same mouldings.

Incidentally, IIRC, the bloke who runs ACE products (not the O gauge tinplate people, the ones who do brass 7 and 4 mm kits told me he'd bought the McGowan moulds and masters and would do them for £70 each(in 2004). I can give you his address if you want. I have managed to accumulate 4 so I can't see a need for any more. It's the B5 I find hard to get hold of.

The Scalefour bloke with the B7 kit (who Morgan identified as Jeremy Suter) told me they'd be advertising in the Modeller and MRJ so I'm awaiting events. Morgan may be able to tell you how to get hold of him.

One other thought for this thread - I saw an advertisement from Dean Sidings saying they are revamping their range. They used to do an L1 (L3) as a resin body only. I wonder if they're reissuing that one? The Kit Conection bloke used to show it as 'TBA' on his website but it is no longer there and he was non-committal when I quizzed him last year about it. I have an old Kingdom Kits one to build but I'd like a look at the resin one anyway.

[61650GTFC]

I have an etched brass Robinson B2 Sam Fay bought from modelex in their Churchward models range at the York Show a couple of years ago. Looks very nice too. A B7 would be a great addition to my layout will look out for the adverts.

[45609]

Jonathan,

Good idea to bring this discussion over to the model railway forum. I'll therefore take this opportunity to repeat my project for a new GC locomotive kit. I have started the design of a 4mm etched kit for the MSLR/GCR 9F (or LNER N5) 0-6-2T. If anybody is interested then please e-mail off list and I will send some more details.

Morgan

[45609]

On the subject of Dean Sidings (Dave Slater) resin bodies. If the L1/L3 is anything like his other loco bodies then I would suggest that they are avoided. I have recently been asked by a friend to assemble and paint a Barry Railway 0-6-4T body from the same source. It was covered in flash, blow holes, large casting runners and the running plate was warped. IMHO it would be easier to build from scratch using either brass (if you have the metal working skills) of plasticard. It was so bad I sent Dave a letter to try purchase a replacement of better quality. Still waiting for a response despite enclosing a SSAE. I'm sure somebody may have had better experience of this supplier but I have personally heard a number of reports of indifferent quality and poor customer service.

Morgan

[jwealleans]

Modelex don't list the B2 on their website - does anyone know if it's still in production? I tried to obtain a Nu-Cast one via Sherwood Models last year and was told the mould had been damaged and they would not be making any more. A brass one would be a much better bet.

WRT Dean Sidings - the advert I saw (in the current - December - Model Rail) said they were upgrading all their kits. Perhaps we can wait to see whether the next iteration are better than the one you had, Morgan?

[rorz101uk]

I would really like to find a Ex GC 8K (LNER O4) has anyone got any information of kits

[jwealleans]

There are a few. My only example is a NuCast (the old K's kit) - whitemetal and will pull anything. Little Engines do two whitemetal versions, one of which Tony Wright built in BRM last year sometime. C & G Models or Sherwood Models in Nottingham will supply those for you. Falcon Brass do an etched one, though their kits have a reputation as being very hard to build. ProScale also do an etched one. Allegedly Bill Bedford does one though I don't recall seeing it in his lists.

Magnificent engines. I ought to have more of them.

[rob]

Thanks Jonathan,
The reason I asked about the castings was because I had been looking for a pair of GEM C10/C11 kits and was reliably warned to watch out for a batch that had allegedly been cast from moulds made using a kit rather than proper masters and I wondered could there be other kits out there like that.Fortunately I now have two and three quarter unbuilt originals-the C11,theres another gap in the kit selection at present!
Thanks to Morgan I have been in touch with Jeremy Suter and have declared for a B7-the kit is well on the way and we should see it next year,a really good addition to GCR/LNER kits,I've always been surprised someone like Nu-Cast didn't do it years ago.
With regards to the Sam Fay I have sourced one second hand due to arrive in a week or so but I was told by Alan Bunn at West Coast Kit that what is needed is a fresh set of moulds and Mike Griffith would need ten orders to make it economic to remould.He has improved Nu-Casts quality a lot for the more popular kits and they are still available for the most part.The Nu-Cast O4 is fine,an old reliable ,but I think the Little Engines versions are of later rebuilds-they don't really suit my timescale as far as I know,so check before buying. I think in fact that Little Engines are now hard to obtain-they have been issued only in small batches in recent years and Sherwood seem to be the only chaps who can source them,and then not easily.
I wonder would it be worth an enquiry to ACE then?I would like a Belpaire J20 which McGowan did,though the rumour mill had it down as a pig!I have four Mc Gowans and find them quite ok at my level,though there is an element of scratchbuilding in whitemetal involved.
With regard to Falcon Brass,the first etched loco I built was their little NB J88,a very attractive prototype.The most recent was a pair of Barnums;they all turned out well and I am very happy to use the range but they do require an element of patience and ingenuity at times-in fairness they make this very clear in their catalogue but you certainly benefit from good photos and plans.
Interesting about the L1/L3-that would also be unusual,if anyone finds out more please keep us posted.There seems to be a lot of interest in GCR types at present,good.Anyone for a J12?I am due to test build some revised etches Bill Bedford prepared originally in 1998.He may have them by Christmas and seems to be unsure about a full kit though masters have been made for the castings but none run off yet.I should have enough spares to fudge the castings but it would be good to see a full kit.

[jwealleans]

After a post further up this list I had a word with Pat Ryan at Modelex and he does a Sam Fay kit, etched brass, for £77. He just doesn't list it anywhere. I have one on order. I have yet to discover whether he offers any other LNER prototypes.

Little Engines are listed by Sherwood Models but my dealings with them have been less than satisfactory. C & G Models in Darlington seem to be able to obtain the kits much more quickly. I am presently building a D16 which I acquired second hand and with no instructions. Sherwood Models refused to try to obtain a set for me while C & G were more than happy to do so. I also had an A7 kit on order from Sherwood for 8 months, by which time I had bought one from C & G and seen them on their stand at several shows.

I'm quite pleased with the Claud - pictures at http://www.rmweb2.co.uk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=700.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

That J15 is quite lovely!

[rob]

I think I will try C&G soon,thanks for the tip-I do want an A6 and A7 from the Little Engines kits eventually and I am happy to stock up now as I reckon the kit manufacturers are going to find it more and more difficult to keep going under the barrage of super detailed RTR which has certainly done a great job of catering for late BR era modellers.I think manufacturers are already finding a contracting market for standard whitemetal kits and though there will always be a "serious" market for high quality etched kits,it will become increasingly specialised and low volumne,produced by enthusiasts content with small or no profit.I prefer to build my own,not superdetailed,and I model 20's/30's which with the best will in the world the big manufacturers will never be able to provide fully for!Luckily a lot of kits can also be found secondhand-I have a second hand K's B2 sourced cheaply on its way but I was not even aware that there was an etched kit out there!

[jwealleans]

Andrew - thank you very much. It was a lot of effort but worth it in the end. See it for real at Kendal, Ely and Hull shows next year.

Rob - I'm collecting the B2 from Pat Ryan at the Darlington show in a couple of weekends. I'll let you know how I get on with it whenever I get around to building it.

BTW, you mentioned you were going to speak to Dan Pinnock. If you haven't, can you find out if he is producing 4 mm again at all? I have had a couple of professional builders comment that they have had kits from him but weren't sure whether he was making them again or just liquidating old stock.

It it's of interest - you mentioned low volume enthusiast kit production - I think this is the way things will go and was very pleased with the result of this : http://www.rmweb2.co.uk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=252.

I'm tempted to have a go at manufacturing something myself but I need to get through a major domestic rebuilding project before I can start to consider it. Building my own railway would be nice as well...

[rob]

Jonathan,
Funny you should post to-day,I spoke to Danny Pinnock this afternoon and did my usual forward order for essentially the coming year.He had intended quitting 4mm in Summer 05 and concentrating on 7mm,as 4mm is not that economic for him.He was ill himself last winter and then very sadly Sylvia passed away this Summer so he has been in no position to concentrate on trains.Despite all this,he actually managed to cope with an order from me over the autumn and has been contemplating 4mm with more relish recently.His original plan was to maintain the GN range and withdraw the rest but he has quite a bit of stock left and is running batches off now and then.Coaches are more available than wagons and I gather he will produce 4mm from future 7mm releases from now on.He would love to do a few ECJS clerestories but that is some way off.What I did was discuss what is and might be available over the next year and Dan despatches them at intervals(which avoids bankruptcy for me!).So far he has always come up with the goods and is a pleasure to deal with-the kits are works of art in my opinion! Get in contact and see what is available,I also think he intends doing the odd show again.I have a phone no if you need it.
Interesting on the resin road van,how does the Dapol chassis work -is it reasonably accurate?I had seen the ad,but had no idea they might suit us LNER types.Interesting prototype.
Couldn't get my steam powered computer to download the pics of the J15 or the van though,a pity.
I am also hoping to get to work on a layout soon-just finished what turned into a four year housemare myself,but have a nice attic to work in once I clean out the junk and tidy the plaster and floor up a bit.Currently being entertained by a GEM J83,theres a blast from the past-very good value for money though and quite a pretty tank,a companion for last years Falcon J88!

[jwealleans]

Hi Rob,

I have just tried Dan Pinnock but he isn't answering at the moment. I will certainly try to contact him if he is doing some 4 mm again. At the prices it fetches on Ebay he ought to be able to manage it such that it is worth his while.

The Dapol chassis is slightly out in the wheelbase but apart from that is fine. You lose most of the details when chopping it down to go under the van and what is left is hidden by the stepboards anyway. Other than that I built it straight out of the box - I did baulk at the resin stepboards when they were fitted and replaced them with brass. It makes an interesting model and hopefully adds to the antique feel of the rolling stock on our 1950s GE exhibition layout.

How was the Falcon Brass loco to build? I have heard that the Jidenco kits could be a nightmare but that the Falcon Brass ones were better. Not necessarily good, but better.

I am going to contact Bill Bedford about his J12 this afternoon as well and after a nice surprise from the tax man (a cheque, no less!) I was thinking about investing in a Master Chassis. Have you seen these in the latest MRJ? Worth a look in my opinion. There's a good example of its' use here: http://www.raymondwalley.com/flying_scotsman.htm Hopefully you'll get the text even if you can't see the images.

[rob]

Yes,Dan may not always be at the end of the phone!Interesting about the E-Bay prices,I'm a Luddite so don't really use it-did pick up a D&S coach kit for a tenner a few weeks ago though,through a pro builder who was sourcing the obsolete kits for me this summer-felt he would never get around to it!Got a bargain ,did I?!
Do get after Bill B re the J12,might encourage him to do the castings-I am waiting on some reasonable substitues from other sources and will let you know how I get on eventually.
The Falcon kit has a very straightforward superstructure,though I made the dumb buffers from lead to add weight.Watch for the T strapping for the tanks though,it may be a bendable cast strip or you might have to shape the vertical from scrap yourself.The brass is very good quality and the frets clean,I gather Phillip Rudd the genial guv'nor has his kits etched when required,not left sitting around oxidising.
The crossheads were my nemesis and in retrospect I should have just modified some spares.They are wrapover types and expect to essentially fabricate your own-mine are a bit basic,but work well.Note also that the frames do need the bearing holes drilled out from etched dimples-tack solder the frames together accurately and it should be ok.Note also the supplied oo spacers are very narrow,I noticed too late and was using a motor gearbox taken from another loco which had been given a more powerful combo so ended up putting a cutout into the frames and using a lot of spacing washers to compensate for my error
-I drove the front axle to keep the cab clear.Finally watch for the slots for the cylinder brackets,they need to be widened a lot.The instructions are brief,but this is a loco to build from photos anyway.Chimney,dome etc are brass,first rate.I enjoyed the kit,the dumb buffers and outside cylinders are a great novelty-and this relatively little known class seems to be lurking in the background of a load of photos of Scots LNER,they epitomise the diversity which makes the LNER so appealing.Incidentally,being a cheapskate I used up some Romfords left over from a Buckjumper built 12 years ago on the insulated side and newer Markits RP25's on the live side so the no. of spokes and the flange depths differ.Cowlairs would have been proud of my parsimony I'm sure!Sorry I'm not tech enough to post photos,I must get around to working that out-I did send Phillp some by post as I think it was the first J88 built since he took over.
AS for the road van-am I correct in thinking that the prototype has wooden solebars but the Dapol chassis steel angle?How does that work out as I'd like to try a Resin kit for a change.Did you assemble it with cyano?Thanks Jonathan!