So what shall we name the new P2?

[manna]

G'Day Gents

113 MILLION Quid------------- once upon a time you could have bought the Whole of the LNER for that !!!!!!!!! Now you could ONLY get 50 A3's, thats inflation for you!!!!

manna

[richard]

I would hope the two P2 projects will get together to produce one loco. The A1 Trust have a track record. Other than support from a well known 7mm manufacturer, I'm not sure what the Doncaster group has going for it?

Richard

[Mickey]

Does anyone know how the B.R. standard Clan locomotive building project is getting on?. Back in the early 1990s there was a group suppose to be building a Clan from new because none made it into preservation just like the A1s.

[Flamingo]

Does anyone know how the B.R. standard Clan locomotive building project is getting on?. Back in the early 1990s there was a group suppose to be building a Clan from new because none made it into preservation just like the A1s.

This is their web address: http://72010-hengist.org/
I'm not a member BTW.

Stratford borrowed a Clan to try it out on the Clacton service. Late 1950s I think it was. I never saw it while it was there and they didn't keep it for very long.

[strang steel]

G'Day Gents

113 MILLION Quid------------- once upon a time you could have bought the Whole of the LNER for that !!!!!!!!! Now you could ONLY get 50 A3's, thats inflation for you!!!!

manna

Yes, and I gather it has not been claimed yet.

The ultimate irony would be if the ticket had been bought by Tom Hicks, but he daren't come over to Liverpool to collect his winnings.

(PS I do realise that our lottery is not open to American citizens)

[giner]

I'm jiggered, then. I bought a ticket on a recent visit and I'm a Canadian/British (dual) citizen. On second thought, I might have just squeaked by on that one. Trouble is, I didn't win. Is that correct, though? Do you HAVE to be a British citizen to win?

[strang steel]

Actually no, I have that somewhat confused (not difficult for me).

The UK citizen bit only applies to buying tickets online.

Sorry about that.

[Klondykeron]

Border Reiver seems highly appropriate since these 16th century raiders operated on both sides of the Anglo Scottish border.

[mr B]

G'Day Gents

113 MILLION Quid------------- Yes, and I gather it has not been claimed yet.

Just heard on the raidio that a senior lady bought it and give it to her husband to keep safe, and the old boy seems to remember dropping it in the bin ! Now thats a tall tale , however the description she gave the lottery boys seems to tally with the shop computor ???

mr B

[Tom F]

G'Day Gents

113 MILLION Quid------------- Yes, and I gather it has not been claimed yet.

Just heard on the raidio that a senior lady bought it and give it to her husband to keep safe, and the old boy seems to remember dropping it in the bin ! Now thats a tall tale , however the description she gave the lottery boys seems to tally with the shop computor ???

mr B

Just been revealed that they weren't the winners. Person has come forward but are keeping it quiet...good for them, I wouldn't tell anyone....all you would know is a Thompson A2/3 was under construction

[adams]

As an American, how do Brits feel about using a name that had already been used in the past? Wasn't Cock-O-The North a P2? There can't be a more memorable name than that!

[Atlantic 3279]

Hello Adams: That's what I, and several others also feel, if you look back through the thread. Inevitably, there are those who see it differently. But I suspect this debate has been just-for-fun at many times rather than entirely serious.......

[S.A.C. Martin]

Hello Adams: That's what I, and several others also feel, if you look back through the thread. Inevitably, there are those who see it differently. But I suspect this debate has been just-for-fun at many times rather than entirely serious.......

That said Graeme, it's no longer a name that's feasible, with number 2001 of the Mikado Society (Now Doncastor P2 Trust) building their frames shortly.

[Atlantic 3279]

You have the advantage over me in terms of latest news on that score Simon. I'd really like to see an original-looking P2 (rather than a Bugatti nosed rebuild) bearing the name Cock o' the North. I imagine others still would prefer this too. It is good to hear that some sort of start on a P2 is really likely to made, although the prospect of having two totally independant schemes competing for sponsors is a bit worrying, especially with the nation expecting to have to live on fairly thin gruel for the next few years. The last thing we want is two bankrupt projects. A single build with optional noses, if actually possible, would surely be a safer and therefore preferable first objective - even if the style of cylinders and valve gear ends up being "wrong" for a true reincarnation of the original 2001.

[S.A.C. Martin]

You have the advantage over me in terms of latest news on that score Simon. I'd really like to see an original-looking P2 (rather than a Bugatti nosed rebuild) bearing the name Cock o' the North. I imagine others still would prefer this too. It is good to hear that some sort of start on a P2 is really likely to made, although the prospect of having two totally independant schemes competing for sponsors is a bit worrying, especially with the nation expecting to have to live on fairly thin gruel for the next few years. The last thing we want is two bankrupt projects. A single build with optional noses, if actually possible, would surely be a safer and therefore preferable first objective - even if the style of cylinders and valve gear ends up being "wrong" for a true reincarnation of the original 2001.

It sounds mad but having two trusts building two P2s is, from what I am hearing, going to turn out better in the long run for costs overall.

The Mikado society (who have been around a good ten years, quietly getting the money together for their project - announced first, about ten years ago in fact!) will get their frames done first, but it'll shorten the time to build and the costs significantly if the two groups order certain specific components together at the same time - that much has been said by both of the project leaders.

You choose your group, and who you want to send money to. I think there's room for two P2s certainly, and the press coverage for both could be mutually beneficial.

This is perhaps an extreme example of a "batch" of new build locomotives being made (as should have been really with the 3MT project). At the very least, ordering together to buy two cylinder blocks will be cheaper than ordering them separately from different manufacturers. In fact, the "two groups ordering as one" approach IS mutually beneficial for all sides. I am not saying bring the two groups together as one, but the speed with which designs and manufacturing of components could be achieved, by pooling their resources for particular components would help.

I am thinking in terms of casting the driving wheels/cylinder blocks/etc etc, but learning towards items that are best ordered in larger quantities to fully realize their value (tubes, etc). Not only that, but it'll shorten the lead times to manufacture and all that, and the costs of buying them entirely separately would be higher.

The A1 trust, rightly, wants a challenge, and a P2 has been at the top of the trust's - and covenator base's - wishlists for some time. If they decide to go ahead, I will support them, as they have a proven track record in delivering a brand new steam locomotive. If both groups go ahead and build a P2 each, it could in fact be extremely good for the railtour market.

Whichever way you look at it, if they solve certain problems of the P2's wheelbase, you are left with an incredibly powerful machine with better tractive adhesion than any other steam locomotive on the mainline. (I personally think a P2 locomotive would be perfect for the modern railway - it's what is required, after all - being able to pull more efficiently a 13 coach on the mainline. Two of them, producing powerful, reliable performances, could convince Network Rail further of the advantages of new build steam for the main line, opening up new opportunities for Railtours on more difficult routes, perhaps).

Overall the differences I can see cropping up are the choice of boilers, the outside valve gear, and the style of casing chosen. The two groups are in contact as far as I know, and they are looking ahead. Mark Allatt stated at the last covenator's convention that it was "95% likely" for the probability study to come back in favour of building a P2 in any event.

The Mikado Society - now Doncastor P2 Trust - have, it seems, either ordered the steel for their frames, or are in the process of doing so, at this point in time.

Either way, the frames of one P2 will exist within the next six months, and within the next year most likely two P2 frames will exist.

So in effect - we will have these locomotives built in the next twenty years, if all goes to plan:

no.2001 - Cock O' The North - Streamlined A4 Style
no.2007 - (Name not made public yet) - Original Style

Who could have predicted that?