Returning to Grantham

[strang steel]

You could well be right there 60022. I never knew what happened to them after their early withdrawal. I suppose they might have been sent to Stratford to be tried on a local service such as Barking - Gospel Oak? I must dig out some old magazines.

On the subject of those Derby 2-car units, living by the Grantham - Boston line I never underlined the class E50000-49 and E56000-49 in my latest dmu ABC when I got a new one, I just waited to see them all over again and noted how long it took me to clear the class (usually only a few months). Imagine my horror in 1967 when try as I might I had still not seen the first member of the class for about 9 months.

I had no access to monthly magazines, so had no idea it had been withdrawn. I just bought a new ABC in 1968 and the pair had gone.

[strang steel]

About half way down page 16 of this thread is a superb colour shot of 60017 running l/e on the up main through Grantham in August 1962.

I have admired this photo many times since 61070 posted it and, at the same time speculated on why the loco (in what appears to be almost ex-works condition) might have been doing at the time. Running light from Doncaster works after an overhaul? Unlikely?

This morning I was browsing Keith Pirt's superb Colour Portfolio (E & NE Region) and on page 11 there appears 60017 at Grantham in charge of the up Anglo Scottish Car Carrier in August 1962. I have looked at both images closely and it appears to me that Silver Fox is in exactly the same external condition on both photos, even down to the partly open inspection cover just below the nameplate.

Could it be that both photos were taken on the same afternoon? Did the car carrier have a booked loco change at Grantham in the summer of 1962? Or maybe the EE Type4 which tended to appear on these services had failed? 60017 was possibly the standby loco for the day and was about to depart having replaced the diesel?

All mere speculation I know, but it is fun doing it....

John

[61070]

I haven't seen Keith Pirt's book but it sounds like it's one to look out for.

It won't help solve the matter of what 60017 was doing on 16th August 1962, or on what date Keith Pirt's picture was taken, but I have another picture of the same locomotive passing the same spot (indeed the same platform gas lamp!) exactly five weeks previously, on 12th July. It was very clean then too, but maybe not quite as bright and sparkling as in the later shot. Still a sight to behold though. Clearly it was a special locomotive at 34A.

To quote stembok on page 9 (posted May 12th) re. 12th July: "60017 [could have worked] a down train to Grantham then light engine to Peterborough, from where it then took 1A37, up Northumbrian from Newcastle, on to London. It was a frequent performer on this working in summer 1962."

Perhaps the book's publisher could supply the date, although they do usually provide accurate dates of pictures if they are known.

[strang steel]

Actually, I have looked at the Keith Pirt photo again and (I am getting really nerdy now) the distribution of coal in the tender is different from the page 16 photo of Silver Fox.

I may have been a little premature with my conclusions.

John

[manna]

G'Day Gents

NOW thats an engine on the ECML, not one of those tram thingies that they've got now

manna

[Hermit 109]

Re: condition of 60017 in August 1962, my very first main line firing trip was in summer of '62 on very same loco with top shed driver George Cook on the 16.21 "parly" K.X to Peterborough, returning with "39 stock" to K.X from Westwood Yard. The loco was in immaculate condition and I understood that particular duty was used as a "running in" turn. The following day I repeated the same duty this time with 60014 also in superb condition. I have no idea whether these two locos had been recently outshopped and can't remember exact date these trips took place except it was high summer '62.

[Flamingo]

Re: condition of 60017 in August 1962, my very first main line firing trip was in summer of '62 on very same loco with top shed driver George Cook on the 16.21 "parly" K.X to Peterborough, returning with "39 stock" to K.X from Westwood Yard. The loco was in immaculate condition and I understood that particular duty was used as a "running in" turn. The following day I repeated the same duty this time with 60014 also in superb condition. I have no idea whether these two locos had been recently outshopped and can't remember exact date these trips took place except it was high summer '62.

60014 was one of the A4s withdrawn at the end of 1962. In my locoshed book I wrote 'Butlins' because I seem to recall that there was talk of Billy Butlin buying Silver Link for display at one of his holiday camps, I can't remember which one or if at that time he was Sir Billy. Obviously this didn't happen, but can anyone say why? He did buy other locos such as Royal Scot and a Duchess at about the same time.

60017 was still active in April 1963, but was withdrawn later that year. I photographed Silver Fox coming through Hornsey on 26/4/63 and although I don't have a note of its actual withdrawal date I don't think it was one of the A4s which were sent to Scotland. It may well have been withdrawn when steam offiicially ended south of Peterborough which was in June 1963, though there were quite a few sightings after that date. .

[strang steel]

In the Keith Pirt book the caption states that 60017 was released from works after its last General on April 12th. I presume this must be from official records; so unless it returned a number of weeks later for some unrecorded fault, it had had 4 months in traffic.

John

[StevieG]

.... " In my locoshed book I wrote 'Butlins' because I seem to recall that there was talk of Billy Butlin buying Silver Link for display at one of his holiday camps, I can't remember which one or if at that time he was Sir Billy. Obviously this didn't happen, but can anyone say why? He did buy other locos such as Royal Scot and a Duchess at about the same time. " ....

He certainly had 46229 Duchess of Hamilton on static display at Minehead Kamp in the summer of '63 [August? (school hols.time.) ]. And 'Brighton Terrier 32678 was just arriving to keep it company: It was 'road-ed' the short distance from Minehead station to the camp while we were there.

[Flamingo]

I think I may have been confusing some of the locos bought by Butlins with those that ended up at Bressingham. LMS 6100 Royal Scot was I believe at the latter place. Did LMS 6233 come from there too before it was returned to the main line? There was also an LMS Pacific at Butlins Pwllheli I think. Was it 6203? Perhaps someone in the Butlins organisation liked big LMS engines more than A4s.

[strang steel]

I think I may have been confusing some of the locos bought by Butlins with those that ended up at Bressingham. LMS 6100 Royal Scot was I believe at the latter place. Did LMS 6233 come from there too before it was returned to the main line? There was also an LMS Pacific at Butlins Pwllheli I think. Was it 6203? Perhaps someone in the Butlins organisation liked big LMS engines more than A4s.

No, Bressingham came later.

Royal Scot in LMS red livery and towed by a B1, passed our back garden (between Sleaford and Boston) on a summers evening in 1963. My dad was so amazed at the sight that we jumped in the car and raced off to catch up with the ensemble on the road which runs parallel to the line between Swineshead Bridge and Boston.

John

[strang steel]

Some of the best (in terms of loco variety) movie coverage of steam at Grantham can be found on the video Britains Railway Heritage - The Heyday Of British Steam Vol 2. This is one of the Green Umbrella videos.

The quality is not the best, but it was filmed on 8mm between 1959 and 1961 so I cant complain.

As well as Grantham and High Dyke, there is decent footage of Nottingham Victoria, Muskham troughs, Doncaster and York for ER enthusiasts.

John

[60022Mallard]

Having now had time to check E50000/56000 were noted by me on Stratford 11.08.70

[strang steel]

Having now had time to check E50000/56000 were noted by me on Stratford 11.08.70

Thanks for that info Mallard; very interesting given they were withdrawn at the beginning of 1967. I wonder why they were kept for at least 3 1/2 years after withdrawal?

The problem is that I cant think of any obvious way of finding out, unless there is a comment in a contemporary magazine somewhere.

John

[Multiprinter]

Actually, in the 60s and 70s there was nothing unusual about dmu vehicles lying around for years after withdrawal, either at works or depots. Possibly the reason was in case they needed to be returned to traffic to replace collision damaged vehicles of the same type.