Kings Cross

[rob237]

Roy and Hermit 109:

Did either of you know KX driver Wilf Guymer?
A distant relative, who (on the only occasion that I ever met him) told me that Wild Swan was his 'allocated' A4.

Cheers
Robt P.

[ROY@34F]

Rob.237; No,I dont't think I came accross Wilf Guymer,though I have heard his name mentioned,possibly in"Top Shed",the book by P.Townend,the shedmaster there at the time.

[ROY@34F]

Rob,I have just looked in the Top Shed book,on page 93,an engine and men top link diagram.there is a driverA GUYMER,not wilf,and his engine was 60017 Silver Fox.I think I have read somewhere of an ALF Guymer,probably in this book's text.

[Hermit 109]

Hi Roy, you were a little ahead of me, I started on New Years Day 62 (it wasn't a Bank Holiday then) and yes I remember Harry Newberry and Sid Tappin also. The seniority list that was posted in the lobby showed that the majority of the senior drivers that were on the point of retirement started in 1918/1919. After 1919 there were no further recruitments into the footplate grades until 1939. My last regular driver J Arlow was the sole exception. He transferred to K.X from New England and was an ex M&GN man who started in 1936 and was therefore the most senior driver for some years. There was a tradition of father & son at Top Shed, so names like Harry Gutteridge and Len Pibworth whose fathers were top link men in the 1930's were still around. Most people associate King's Cross with main line work on capital trains, but in reality that work was restricted to the top three links and the majority of the work was very mundane. Apart from engine movements there was a regular link shunting the goods yard, three shifts at Holloway Carriage sidings, three at Ashburton Grove and so on. It was a long drawn out process of many years before you got to see what was over the horizon beyond Welwyn Gdn City. Perhaps you can remember a guy called Alan Ramage, about your time. He claims he used to fire for Bill Hoole in his spare time, although the only guy I knew who could claim that was Ken Pettingell who was Bill's regular mate. Alan loved steam and was the second fireman on Flying Scotsman when she did the non-stop run to Edinburgh with Alan Pegler. Going back to seniority, progress through the links at King's Cross was swift compared to northern depots. At Gateshead for example, you couldn't tell the difference between the driver and his mate and there was a degree of resentment in the air when they relieved us whippersnappers who "only had 10 years service". If a Gateshead or York Inspector rode on the footplate and you were "in the chair" you could cut the atmosphere with a knife. Happy Days and I have great memories of my time at the "Cross"

[manna]

G'day Gents

When I started at the 'Cross' in 1970 the senior driver,had a seniority of 1922, although he may have come from somewhere else.

Ken Pettingell, now that name rings a very big bell, been secondman quite a few times to Ken, big quiet fellow, always willing to talk about steam engines though, and his trips with Bill, he told me that he always carried a dust pan and brush, to clean out the tender, which Bill was always doing!!!! and there coasting runs from Hitchin to KX because they'd run out of coal!!!

manna

[rob237]

Rob,I have just looked in the Top Shed book,on page 93,an engine and men top link diagram.there is a driverA GUYMER,not wilf,and his engine was 60017 Silver Fox.I think I have read somewhere of an ALF Guymer,probably in this book's text.

Thanks for your response...
On reflection, his name could have been Alf, not Wilf.
Remain confident he told me that Wild Swan was his loco.

Recall that certain drivers were associated with specific A4's...Ted Hailstone and Silver Link being a prime example.
IIRC, Haymarket also had similar driver allocations/associations with their A4's, and that 'Toram Beg' mentions this in his book 'Enginemen Elite'.

Cheers
Robt P.

[Hermit 109]

Hi Manna, I stand corrected, 1922 was about the last recruit into the footplate at King's Cross, but nothing after that until 1939 which meant that promotion stagnated for years. There was an agreement that when a main line fireman reached the age of 40, he could voluntarily be placed in a link where the work was less physical. many men at that time spent over 20 years on the shovel. Alf Guymer is a name I'm familiar with but can't place him in my memory. When I started, the establishment of loco crews was around 400 men (second only to Stratford). Many of the senior drivers were moved from Top Shed and based at the Passenger Station and only appeared at the shed for the few rostered steam turns left. There was another out station based at Finsbury Park which covered the inner suburban routes worked by the Craven Units berthed in Western Sidings. So as you can see, remembering individuals was not easy. I must dig out my diary's and refresh my memory.

[manna]

G'day Gents

I will admit I can't remember half the drivers and firemans names, when I get a prompt, then it comes back?

I have also heard that when they shut the M&GN some of the drivers and firemen went straight into the Leeds Link.The drivers just went roadlearning, the firemen had to take there driving test then had to do there roadlearning ( 6 months on the cushions)

manna

[ROY@34F]

Reading recent posts,I don't recall the names mentioned I'm afraid,but take in all other comments,i.e. slow promotion up north etc. When at top shed on loan,I think the reason I got on the odd main line job was because the suburban links were based at KX station by then,so firemen were not so easily available if someone did'nt turn up,or were a bit "under the weather"if they did! I once had a Week on nights with Driver F.Whitham of Finsbury Park signing on point,on a "railcar"(105 class?)to Hertford and back 3 or 4 times,mainly put on for staff,I believe.I was also often sent to Hatfield to fire with a driver there,over to Dunstable and Luton on a single line from Welwyn,and goods to Hertford (East was it?)Even had a trip or 3 with Hornsey drivers across to Bricklayers Arms on the southern.Got around a bit and enjoyed every minute.I remember Bill Hoole.never fired for him,luckily maybe! though it would be nice to say you had.

[StevieG]

Sounds like you got the Hatfield destinations right Roy :
To Luton or on to Dunstable, including Welwyn G.City, Ayot, Wheathampstead, Harpenden, Luton Hoo, and Luton.
And goods to Hertford East; From WGC, there were (or was it had been by then), stations along the way at Cole Green and Hertingfordbury, then up the bank to pass Hertford North signal box and station on your left, then down and sharp right to the original Hertford GN station [closed, I think, when 'North' opened (1924?), (also known as Cowbridge) ], and on into Hert. East sidings.
But maybe you didn't go Hatfield to St.Albans Abbey then?

[ROY@34F]

Thanks,StevieG,I don't recall Hatfield to St.Albans Abbey.In my diary of my last year on loan to top shed ,there is mention 2or3 N7 engines,and 2or3 N2s as well as diesels.69629,69618,69520,D5317,D5315,D3476,69580,D3490,D5308,are mentioned.This is early 1962.

[Marx]

Len Dilley- Peter Green- Ken Crawley-Paul Chapman-Paul Baker,
Paul Baker was Cods Mouths Second man?

[Mickey]

Deleted

[StevieG]

...and the tall, upright, and rather 'proper'-spoken Driver Gunter ?

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Remember some of those names, Driver Cowlard, tall fellow went with him a few times, want a few more, Davy Johns, Ken Lester (or Budgie) Ron Bye, a West Indian Driver named Mc Taggart (he's the driver that did'nt like the 'Wolf of Badenoch' and a big whitehaired driver called Bosworth and of course Dave? Rollins now living in Queensland, sometimes I wish I had a better memory for names and face's

manna