Returning to Grantham

[workev]

Mention of A5s has jogged my memory. In issue 266, August 2009, Steam World published an article titled 'Memories of a Telegraph Lad' which was written by Ken Hook. He recalled working in 'boxes at Grantham, and I exchanged a couple of emails with Ken. In one of them he said: 'One of my memories of Grantham North was when an A8 tank locomotive was derailed right outside of the rear of the box and almost finished up in the roadway by the bridge. It was still off the road when I had finished my shift and when I returned 12 hours later they were just re-railing her.'

John, I suspect that Ken was right about it being an A5, these were more common at Grantham in the late 1940s (and maybe before), with two being at the shed in the 1950s. From what I can see the A8s were predominantly sheded in the north east, unless one strayed from there on a working.

Ian

[61070]

I think perhaps there's a minor misunderstanding here? Ken himself wrote 'A8' while, as noted, I believe the loco was probably an 'A5'. However, not being all-knowing about these things I didn't presume to alter the direct quote from Ken's email because he was there, not me. Sorry if I've misled you.

[strang steel]

On the subject of A5s, the May 1958 Railway Magazine mentions 69824 from Lincolnshire working on Kings Cross ECS trains, but that is all. I found nothing else except a mention of the same loco having been seen at Lincoln St Marks in the October issue, which suggests that its visit to 'the smoke' was rather short-lived.

The R Os for the same period indicate the loco had been previously allocated to Immingham but was in fact in store at Lincoln when it was summoned southwards.

What I dont understand is, if 69824 had been tried with little success in 1958, why borrow 69814 for similar trials two years later in 1960 when the diesels were being delivered in ever greater numbers, and the A5 class was on the verge of extinction anyway?

[Flamingo]

A possibloe explanation is that the speed restriction at Wood Green which caused the problems was imposed after 69824's trial in 1958 but before 69814 arrived in 1960 or whenever it was. Most of my time spent watching at Wood Green would have been done before 1960, that's why I don't remember the N2s having problems unless they were unable to take a run at the bank over the flyover. I do remember a 9F on empty wagons once getting stuck on the flyover and slipping uncontrollably for several minutes. Perhaps that was after the speed restriction was imposed.

[workev]

61070, my sincere apologies.....

Just got too excited about finding my book.......

Ian

[workev]

On the subject of A5s, the May 1958 Railway Magazine mentions 69824 from Lincolnshire working on Kings Cross ECS trains, but that is all. I found nothing else except a mention of the same loco having been seen at Lincoln St Marks in the October issue, which suggests that its visit to 'the smoke' was rather short-lived.

The R Os for the same period indicate the loco had been previously allocated to Immingham but was in fact in store at Lincoln when it was summoned southwards.

What I dont understand is, if 69824 had been tried with little success in 1958, why borrow 69814 for similar trials two years later in 1960 when the diesels were being delivered in ever greater numbers, and the A5 class was on the verge of extinction anyway?

My XP book shows that 69824 was never actually allocated to KX, so it's visit must have been short-lived. The loco moved from Immingham to Grantham in April 1958, then on to Lincoln in June 1958 before being withdrawn in December of the same year from Lincoln shed. This fits in with your findings, and maybe suggests that the loco moved from Immingham to KX for the trials before being brought back to 34F. Interestingly 69814 moved from Grantham to KX in January 1960 until May 1960 when it went briefly to Lincoln for one month before transfer to Colwick.

For the record, 69827 was the other A5 at 34F in the 50s between May 1954 until withdrawal in November 1959.

Ian

[workev]

More thoughts on the 4 A4s that spent April-September at 34F in 1957. It appears that the summer of 1957 marked a lot of change in allocations amongst the East Coast pacifics. At the time the A4s moved north some of the A3s and A1s were sent the other way to KX, but other A3s were sent from Leicester Shed on the GC.

I will try and look at things in more detail, but can only assume that Summer 1957 heralded changes to ECML services, or that the re-shuffle was to pre-empt the A3 re-build scheme for Kylchap blastpipes. I think in 1957 Grantham was still pivotal to the pacific operations on the ECML, and I don't think (although I am always unsure saying that!) that the Type 4 diesels (even the Class 40s) had a foothold in things.

Maybe the links in the major East Coast sheds changed as well to make things more (or less!) efficient.

Does anybody have any thoughts or info on Summer 1957?

Ian

[strang steel]

Does anybody have any thoughts or info on Summer 1957?

Ian

The 1957 Railway Observers say very little, apart from noting the transfer of 60003, 60008, 60010 and 60030 to Grantham, in exchange for 60044, 60103, 60136 and 60139.

It does mention that the first observed working of 60010 from Grantham was on the 0550 ex-Kings Cross on 4th April.

The corresponding Railway Magazines for 1957 say very little also, except to repeat the numbers of the transferred locos, but the June 1957 Trains Illustrated (well, it is a miserable day and SWMBO is away until this evening ) comes up with this:-

"We understand the reason for the change is that the A4s now prove heavier on maintenance even than the A3s, let alone the A1s; in particular, an unexplained tendency of A4s right hand driving axleboxes to overheat is causing concern. Following the transfers, a series of dynamometer car trials was concluded between London and Newcastle with A3s to test their ability to tackle through workings between the two cities."

However, back on the local services The Railway Observer blows my theory out of the water by saying (I have altered printed times to 24 hour clock):-

"On and from 10th March, the Sunday Grantham-Nottingham-Derby service has been improved. An additional train formed of a diesel unit now departs Grantham at 1420 for Derby Friargate, returning at 1545. The 0740 and 1830 Granthan - Nottingham Vic. forming the 0905 and 2015 return workings are now diesel operated. The 1110 Grantham - Nottingham Vic. is also a diesel working and is extended to Derby and forms the 1230 return."

Also from the June issue:-

"The new two-car Derby built steel sets in the Lincolnshire area are not adequately powered to enable them to operate the existing schedules with the addition of a van or horsebox, as was the case with the lightweight units. Accordingly, certain services such as Skegness - Grantham and Lincoln - Boston are running as three coach sets with the addition of an extra power car. Even so, the 1 in 122 bank west of Ancaster reduces one of these sets to 45 m.p.h. Examples noted in traffic are 50008/50007/56007, 50011/50012/56012, 50038/50039/56015 and 50015/50035/56035.

The spare trailers are stored in various places, 56016/25/40 at Blankney & Metheringham, 56010/39 at Bardney and 56004/20/22/37/38/44/45 near Sleaford South Junction."

[Flamingo]

Here is a shot of one of Grantham's A5s, photographed on 4/10/59. If its was withdrawn in November it looks like I was only just in time!

A5 69827 seen on shed at Grantham a month or so before its withdrawal in November 1959.

[ROY@34F]

There is a photo of 69814 at Top Shed in Peter Townsend's Top Shed book,but no date.I remember it and 9827 when I started as a cleaner at Grantham in A ug.'57.,also 60030,60008,but there were obviously more,according to you chap's enviable research.I do remember Gantham loco being often choca. with engines,big pacifics,on the ashpits waiting to have their fires cleaned.we cleaners used to have a ride round the "angle"to turn,sometimes have a drive,learn how to go about cleaning the fire,smokebox,ashpan,etc..not the most romantic things about steam engines,just hot,mucky,and sweaty!but it was the way we learned of course.I seem to remember it said that K.X.men were't keen of the A1s,much preferred A4s.I don't remember A1s at Grantham,they must have just left I suppose.I had my first main line trip on an A1,60131"Osprey" from KX to Doncaster nonstop one saturday in 1959,when on loan to top shed,with driver Harry Bartlett of top shed.I swapped wih a mate I lodged with,rareing to get a go on the "big ones".old Harry was'nt too keen with me being "just a boy",but as the trip got underway,he was pointing out places of interest to me,even gave me a fag.and on the way back "on the cushions",said i'd done well..praise indeed.

[ROY@34F]

There is a photo of 69814 at Top Shed in Peter Townsend's Top Shed book,but no date.I remember it and 9827 when I started as a cleaner at Grantham in A ug.'57.,also 60030,60008,but there were obviously more,according to you chap's enviable research.I do remember Gantham loco being often choca. with engines,big pacifics,on the ashpits waiting to have their fires cleaned.we cleaners used to have a ride round the "angle"to turn,sometimes have a drive,learn how to go about cleaning the fire,smokebox,ashpan,etc..not the most romantic things about steam engines,just hot,mucky,and sweaty!but it was the way we learned of course.I seem to remember it said that K.X.men were't keen of the A1s,much preferred A4s.I don't remember A1s at Grantham,they must have just left I suppose.I had my first main line trip on an A1,60131"Osprey" from KX to Doncaster nonstop one saturday in 1959,when on loan to top shed,with driver Harry Bartlett of top shed.I swapped wih a mate I lodged with,rareing to get a go on the "big ones".old Harry was'nt too keen with me being "just a boy",but as the trip got underway,he was pointing out places of interest to me,even gave me a fag.and on the way back "on the cushions",said i'd done well..praise indeed.

[61070]

A few posts ago, on page 20, I mentioned a recent feature in one of the monthlies describing how 60157 Great Eastern, then of 34A, had been taken by Grantham men up to Leeds on a special train in 1958.
ROY@34F having just shared his first experience of firing on the main line with an A1, I thought it would be nice to drop in this little sequence.

1. On an overcast 9th April 1964 60157, now of 36A Doncaster, called briefly on an up passenger train. Here are four pictures taken on that occasion.

2. The second photograph is taken from a position that definitely wouldn't be recommended in any guide to safe photography on the railway (please don't try to repeat this shot at Grantham today), but it provides dramatic angle and an interesting glimpse of some mechanical equipment associated with the Yard Box. S&T specialists will correct me if I'm wrong (and they will probably be able to add more) but I believe the rectangular box just to the right of the rh rail of the down line is a detonator placer. The pairs of wooden posts in the six-foot are datum points for reference during track maintenance to check the correct alignment and level of the track with respect to the platform edges - again p-way people please amend or elaborate.

3. As 60157 gets away in the third picture I've often wondered where the dribble of water from behind the locomotive's rh buffer is coming from. Does anyone know? It doesn't seem to be the right place for a drain from the inside cylinder.

4. We didn't know it then, but this receding train would be the last passenger service hauled by an east coast pacific in normal traffic that my father would photograph.

[StevieG]

.... " 2. The second photograph is taken from a position that definitely wouldn't be recommended in any guide to safe photography on the railway (please don't try to repeat this shot at Grantham today), but it provides dramatic angle and an interesting glimpse of some mechanical equipment associated with the Yard Box. S&T specialists will correct me if I'm wrong (and they will probably be able to add more) but I believe the rectangular box just to the right of the rh rail of the down line is a detonator placer. .... " ....

I am sure you are right about the 'box' being a det.-placer. The common variety, those directly operated from the signal box, were mostly, but not always, right outside the box as is this one, and operated by rod, either by red-painted pull-up stirrup handle between levers, at lever-frame quadrant level, or by lever, painted in alternating black & white chevrons (pointing up for an Up line det,placer, or down for a Down line).
Also to be discerned, to the left of the Down Main points, the narrow-looking box (we're viewing its end) almost under the platform edge, with a signal wire passing through it, fore and aft, is a mechanical detector, with the wire no doubt leading to the shunting disc signal, out of shot above and to the left, which has appeared in 61070's previous photos : The detector's purpose is to prevent the signal clearing for moves back over the points unless the point switch tongues are properly positioned to be passed over/through by wheels, safely.
Just beyond the points, the first fishplated joint in the DM's R-H rail can be seen to have twin bonding wire connections along it, showing that the line is track-circuited; the bonds ensuring good electrical continuity across rail joints as the fishplates and bolts were insufficiently effective or reliable to do the job unaided.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Just two little things that caught my eye, Pic 2-- White paint on the ballast, that has dripped from the platform edge! and Pic 4--- The amount of rivets in the tender of 'Great Eastern' other than that, just heaven.

manna

[rob237]

Picture 2 seems to be causing all the fun!

Within it, I'm wondering...what are the nine items of cylindrical debris beneath the down-side platform edge?

Cheers
Robt P.