Returning to Grantham

[workev]

I would also like to add my thanks to ROY@34F for his memories. Given his time on the railways was 50 years ago its great to get any memories recalled. Roy's memories about changes seem to fit in with what I can glean from books, etc. I will try and put together a list of those workings I can find, and interesting that the change in KX Lodge turns affected Grantham (and I assume Peterborough changes). I also suspect that the appearance of more diesels in the late 50s and early 60s changed the rosters (crews and engines) dramatically as well.

Its interesting to note that the WTTs I have for 1956/57 do not show changes at Grantham, but they definately occured here at this time. Most trains spent 5 minutes at Grantham (seperate from any recovery time) which it seems was enough to change the engines given the way it has been described here and in other forums. The very fact that there are plenty of shots of A4s at Grantham suggests that engine changes were still happening in the early 60s.

The freight turns are fascinating. Whilst Grantham had its own allocation of O2's, O4's were frequently seen on-shed so which turns did these operate? Was it the High Dyke branch (most pictures and videos I have seen have an O2 on these workings), or maybe coal trains.

Freight is normally forgotten, especially when you have East Coast pacifics to look at; but most times their operation is just as interesting.

Ian

[rob237]

On my many visits throughout the 50's cannot ever recall seeing a freight halt at any of the 3 platforms for either crew or loco change. Majority of freights passed non-stop on the main, with a few looping around the back - usually for overtaking purposes.

On page 9, 61070 has a trio of Summer '62 pictures showing 60010 halting on the back goods line - possibly for a crew change - before moving off northward. I'd be interested if 61070, or strang steel, ever saw a freight loco change - I certainly didn't.

Don't be too distracted by freight loco changes, as compared to passenger changes they were relatively rare.

Cheers
Robt P.

[workev]

On my many visits throughout the 50's cannot ever recall seeing a freight halt at any of the 3 platforms for either crew or loco change. Majority of freights passed non-stop on the main, with a few looping around the back - usually for overtaking purposes.
Robt P.

Which begs the question.... what did the freight locos allocated to Grantham actually work? On this thread there are pictures of WDs, O2s and others on shed, so what did they work to get there?

Ian

[strang steel]

On my many visits throughout the 50's cannot ever recall seeing a freight halt at any of the 3 platforms for either crew or loco change. Majority of freights passed non-stop on the main, with a few looping around the back - usually for overtaking purposes.
Robt P.

Which begs the question.... what did the freight locos allocated to Grantham actually work? On this thread there are pictures of WDs, O2s and others on shed, so what did they work to get there?

Ian

I think you have combined 2 separate questions there, Ian. The freight locos allocated to Grantham mostly worked the High Dyke - Frodingham iron ore trains. In the early 1960s there was one every 3 hours or so and the journey took 4 hours each way. There were only about 14 O2s allocated to Grantham which would seem about right for the service, plus one or two under repair/spare.

The WDs or O1/O4s seen on the shed would most likely be Colwick locos, as there were booked trains from there to Grantham. There were also trains to the various iron ore sidings to the west of Grantham via Belvoir Junc which may well have brought a Colwick loco to the shed on occasion. I presume that there must have been a few failures that would be deposited at the shed from the more long distance workings from time to time.

There were certainly regular freight services from New England to Colwick, and in the WTT I am looking at (1964) for instance, the 0722 from Peterborough was booked to spend 2 hours at Grantham. I'm not sure what happened to the loco during that time, although by then it would probably have been a diesel.

In my 1959 locoshed, there are no WDs or O1/O4s allocated to Grantham.

John

[workev]

John,

Yep I know that most of the allocations were O2s, and I realised that most of the "foreign" engines were from Colwick. I only have a KX-Doncaster freight WTT for 1956/7 and can see all the Iron Ore trains, so that exaplins the O2s. I guess its finding the other freights that terminated at Grantham (I presume to be added to other services?) within the WTT.

Do you know whether the Grantham Nottingham WTT came under Eastern or Midland region?

Maybe I should be trying to track down Colwick workings/rosters as well then!

Ian

[strang steel]

For the period that this thread is mainly concerned with, the Grantham - Colwick section was Eastern Region.

I only have two WTTs for the Lincoln district; one is 1956/7 and the Nottingham line is not included because it comes under section C. The other is 1964/65 where the Nottingham line is included.

However, services through E Junc at Barkston to Grantham are listed in 56/7, so there is some evidence of freight to the town. For instance, at 0220 there is a light engine to Grantham shed after working the 2050 Frodingham to Whitemoor as far as Boston.

Yes, it is a shame that we dont seem to have a WTT for the Nottingham line in the late 50s/early 60s but maybe one will appear for sale at sometime in the near future.

John

[mossie]

I have a copy of the "Instructions For Loading and Working Freight Trains" dated 12th November 1962 that shows a class 4 & 5, Express Freight Train between Grantham or Allington Jn. to Boston.

The steam loading classification is 8, which shows that the loco in charge should be an A1, A2, A3, A4 or a BR 9F.

It also mentions Newark, Colwick and Nottingham Vic., so they could be stabled there.

Regards

Richard

[ROY@34F]

re.locos on shed at grantham;grantham 02s..worked ironstone trains to frodingham.(i replied about this in the "frodingham iron ore trains..route ?" thread..;also WDs were frodingham engines,sharing the same jobs.we also had "tablet catcher"fitted 02s for the stainby branch,which enabled us to run non stop through colsterworth towards skillington road,where we stopped to swap the key for the one to stainby,or sproxton. 63929/30/31/32 were so fitted..ONLY 02s were allowed up the branch from highdyke,i think i am correct in saying. i can't explain why 04s were seen on shed,i think it was unusual.we worked a stone train a day from belvoir. colwick men worked others i suppose.they also worked the branch from there across towards denton etc.. an interesting story::::one spring bank holiday saturday,i was up the branch at stainby with driver jack bottemley. all the sidings were jam packed with loaded wagons,the little engines of the steel co. had even put 3 or 4 in a "cripple"road. we went in there to pick them up with our somewhat heavier tango!! we ended up with the wheels on the sleepers!!! it turned out the wooden chocks in the chairs holding the bullhead rail had gone rather rotten; and just gave way;the rails splaying outwards....bump,bump..bump. i had to get on the shunter's bike to take the single line key to skillington road to allow the breakdown train to come..only "one engine in steam" and all that. jack and i were worried we would miss our sunday job,because of the 12 hour rest requirement for enginemen..we made it.it was a trip to skegness! a very coveted turn,and as it was bank hol.sunday,nice wheather,the train was packed out;made a mention in the"journal"(spring '61/'62?) they even added 2 or 3 coaches to us at boston..imagine that today!! god knows how many we had on; must have been a pull out of boston ,up over the sluice bridge,which incidently was weight restricted.RA9 engines not allowed(all pacifics etc.) we had one of our grantham B1s of course. anyway ,a rather interesting weekend.hope you enjoy my little tale..

[hyperion]

'Mystic Harmony' is W. Elgar Dickinson's second book. I found his first, 'A Friend in Steam' in the library and went straight to buy it, then sent for 'Steam the Mystic Harmony' as soon as I heard of it.

Excellent reminscences, Midland and LNE, he worked part time, mainly at Leicester, while he studied, and also biked all over the country in search of steam photography - and his photos are very good, wish I'd used the camera in the '50s. He's also able to express the philosophical side of steam locomotion - hence his second title - but don't be put off by that - books which won't age, I reckon

37

[workev]

I have watched a few of my videos recently and the WDs were seen from both Colwick and Frodingham sheds as mentioned by ROY@34F. It also seems to confirm that the O2s worked the iron ore trains at least up the branch. Maybe larger trains worked behind WDs and then were tripped up the branch by O2s, as well as taking turns up to Frodingham.

I have also been looking at some of my allocation books and I see that V2s were allocated to 34F in 1962/63, but there has not been much mention of them here so not sure how accurate that information is.

Also, does anybody have a definitive list of the L1s allocation to 34F, which locos and when? I assume they worked the local trains West and East?

Ian

[ROY@34F]

yes,"workev",i remember V2's at grantham . certainly in '57/'58 we had 60893 and 60966,but not sure of later years.there were 2 9Fs around that time also,or perhaps a little later,to work "the meat train";whatever exactly that meant,but i think it was a late afternoon job up to kx goods. sorry i can't be more precise . as for L1s,yes we had those around 1960,moved up from KX as they were gradually displaced by diesels . during my 2 yrs. on loan to top shed,i frequently fired on them . i rmember my 1st. trip on one ,an early morning train from welwyn gdn. city to kx. i didn't really know where i was,being a young passed cleaner from grantham, it was dark , you went like a bat out of hell between stations,and boy,did they ride rough at speed . however,you soon learn how to ease things a bit,such as chucking as much coal in the 'box as you can while starting off/approaching at stations,'cos at speed it was difficult to hit the firehole door! . they were used also,of course ,used on empty coaches out of kx to bounds green carriage sidings . which was on the up side near wood green station . so we had to go over the flyover there to get on the up side hertford line, and then propel the coaches into bounds green, and slowly through the washer . the L1s were a bit light on there feet,and drivers used to stop well short of the gantry of signals if the"board"was,not off , to get a run at the flyover . on my return to grantham, the same L1s were there, and were used on passenger trains to derby friargate,via nottingham vic., which i fired on sometimes. they were still as rough at speed . odd times we had a B1 on the derby jobs,which was brilliant..well boss of the job,and a far better riding engine. we used to clear off round a triagular route to turn with a B1.don't ask me where !! hope thisi helps a little .

[strang steel]

Excellent stuff Roy. Wasn't one of the jobs of an L1, the shunting duty at High Dyke sidings?

I have seen a photo somewhere of two O2s and an L1 coupled together, said to be returning to Grantham shed after a spell at High Dyke.

I presume that a diesel shunter took over at some stage, or did the Brush Type 2s perform the shunting themselves after 1963?

John

[61070]

On my many visits throughout the 50's cannot ever recall seeing a freight halt at any of the 3 platforms for either crew or loco change. Majority of freights passed non-stop on the main, with a few looping around the back - usually for overtaking purposes.

On page 9, 61070 has a trio of Summer '62 pictures showing 60010 halting on the back goods line - possibly for a crew change - before moving off northward. I'd be interested if 61070, or strang steel, ever saw a freight loco change - I certainly didn't.

Don't be too distracted by freight loco changes, as compared to passenger changes they were relatively rare.

Cheers
Robt P.

I don't remember freight locomotive changes at Grantham in the early 1960s, certainly not as a common occurrence. As has been pointed out previously, heavy freight locos used to travel light engine, often in pairs, up to High Dyke to begin the haulage part of their diagram there, relieving others which would return to the shed light from High Dyke for servicing. See my April 8th post on page 4 for a photo of a pair of O2s en route to High Dyke. The photo strang steel remembers is probably the lower illustration on page 18 of Colin Walker's Trails of Steam Vol.6 – Trails through Grantham. Incidentally, in relation to sightings of 'Britannias', the same book, on page 42, shows 70037 at platform 5 on a down parcels train.

I do remember crews of the ironstone trains being changed in the station in diesel days - see photo of D1506 in the April 18th post. I believe that by this time the crews were accommodated in the station buildings, in the former down side buffet. While the shed was open, footplate crew accommodation had been in rooms under the old coaling stage; I learned this when I asked a former Grantham Driver what the three tall chimneys that can be seen in the picture on page 14 behind 60112's cab and tender were for - stoves in the Drivers', Firemen's and I think the Coaling Stage Men's / Shed Labourers' mess rooms beneath the coaling stage. I think the Cleaners had inferior accommodation elsewhere - perhaps under the water tank? ROY@34F could probably help me out here.

My recollection is that down, i.e. loaded, ironstone trains made most use of the bi-directional goods loop on the west side of the station to await a path. (note - please see a later post by ROY@34F indicating that this was seldom the case, and that in steam days ironstone trains normally ran through to Barkston Junction on the main line without stopping). Southbound mineral traffic - mainly coal, or ironstone empties - was usually turned onto the up goods line at the Yard Box for the five miles to High Dyke.

Sometimes in diesel days a loaded ironstone train which had stopped for a change of crew would occupy the entire length of the down platform, its wagons easing back after stopping as the buffer springs extended. Then it would start with that evocative sound and sight as couplings snatched tight in turn along the train until, finally, the guard's van lurched into motion. The whole process was a demonstration, both practical and sensory, of the mechanics of potential and kinetic energy, momentum and inertia in action! Here's a photo taken on 16th April 1964 of that scenario in process of being enacted. The Porters, you'll notice, had developed the admirable art of creating, from any given collection of items, the most unstable-looking load that they could balance on a trolley while jolting it over the boarded crossing.

[ROY@34F]

no, strangsteel , the L1s at highdyke were merely there at 1 or 2 pm. with a brake van conveying c/over crews for the branch. they were returning to grantham loco coupled to south facing 02s , sometimes , which had just disposed of their iron ore empties from frodingham . sometimes ,of course,there could be a frodingham WD instead . on the loaded trains, we used to c/over, when we met up , with frodingham men with the empties . see my post on "highdyke-frodingham iron ore-route?" thread.

[Boris]

Don't see any reason "Austerities" couldn't work up Hydyke branch

02/2 75t 16cwt
02/3 78t 13cwt
02/4 74t 02cwt
Austerity 70t 05cwt

We used to have the same trouble at Renishaw when we went on the Midland to go to a colliery over a wooden bridge.
The shunters were afraid to let Austerities on it but allowed 04s the lightest of which was 72t 10cwt