Welwyn Garden City

[StevieG]

Good old Cecil ('Chalky') at CT, eh, Micky. "There's no need to ******g shout!", like he wasn't a bit deaf.

[Mickey]

To be honest Stevie i always could Cecil White Cecil (i forgot how to spell Cecil shame on me) but i do remember one or two other people calling him 'Chalky' usually relief signalmen. Old Cecil told me once that he was on the job during the 1926 general strike so he may have come on the job in G.N.R. days but he may not have i never foundout for sure?.

[Boris]

Re wearing L.N.E.R. caps well into B.R days, earlier in this chat, when the grease top caps were issued to us at Darnall, very few drivers and firemen wore them instead of the cloth topped L.N.E.R. cap which as some may remember had the elipse with the letters in the centre sign.

This was because they made your head sweat more and the fear of baldness was bandied about.

The laugh was that most of the cloth caps were so well covered in oil, aquired when oiling inside motions, that they were waterproof anyway.

But then, even in the 1950s we were still classed as Poggy Men or G.C

[hq1hitchin]

Good old Cecil ('Chalky') at CT, eh, Micky. "There's no need to ******g shout!", like he wasn't a bit deaf.

Dave Tilbury - "That's two light engines for Doncaster down the main, Cecil".

Cecil - "Yes, it looks like it might rain"

I believe it took a threat from the saintly Fred Walmesley, who died far too young, for Cecil to start wearing a hearing aid?

[Mickey]

I shouldn't talk about them really but they were (like many thousands of railwaymen up and down the country back then) 'bloody good at there job' but unfortunetly onto days privatized railway the railway of being 'watched by unseen eyes' all day and all night long and being asked why you have delayed a light engine by 3-minutes at 3:am? and where a culture exsist of where minutes 'lost' count because of the 'punctuality targets' and also where THE LESS YOU KNOW ABOUT THE RAILWAY THE FURTHER YOU CAN GO IN PROMOTION you can't help thinking that the likes of people like Cecil and his generation wouldn't recognise the old job?.

[hq1hitchin]

I shouldn't talk about them really but they were (like many thousands of railwaymen up and down the country back then) 'bloody good at there job' but unfortunetly onto days privatized railway the railway of being 'watched by unseen eyes' all day and all night long and being 'spoken to' by some geezer who has just 'come off the street' asking you why you have delayed a light engine by 3-minutes at 3:am? and a culture of where minutes 'lost' count because of the 'punctuality targets' and also THE LESS YOU KNOW ABOUT THE RAILWAY THE FURTHER YOU CAN GO IN PROMOTION you can't help thinking that the likes of people like Cecil and his generation wouldn't recognise the old job?.

Probably not, but at WGC we didn't have too many of them - or on the KX Division as a whole, really. Plus we also had 'Slim Jim' Bill Stirling, aka 'The signalman's friend' . His bark was far worse than his bite, in my experience and he was often talked about at Hatfield re-unions, living to a great age - almost 100, I believe. Fred Walmseley had come up the hard way, via RAF wartime service in Bomber Command, and was a genuine black mac somewhere on the Preston district before moving south. Certainly there seems to be some unsavoury characters about at the top of the railway industry at the moment:

http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-101.php3?id_article=6190

[Mickey]

The 'old job' ain't like it use to be with the constant 'background threat' of if you don't perform you will be put on POOR PERFORMANCE and if you don't improve your performance after that it's a case of GOOD BYE. Thats the railway in 2010. So you want to work on the railway young man?.

[Mickey]

Harry Fitzgerald died in the 1980s. It's safe to assume that Cecil White must have died otherwise he would be about 100-105 yrs old by now?. Alan 'pedler' Palmer went to Kings Cross PSB shortly after WGC box closed in Sep '76 although he did work as a ticket collector on the footbridge at WGC station for about a month after the box closed before going to Kings Cross. I saw him on a couple of occasions at that time ticket collecting on the footbridge and he looked 'cheesed off' to say the least but after he left WGC and ticket collecting i never saw or spoke to him again until by pure chance one Sat/night when i was taking a possession with Kings Cross when i was a Signalman at Western Junction s/box in 1989 and he was on the other end of the phone at Kings Cross. He told me that that was his 'last shift' and that he was retiring after that!. I remember that he lived somewhere around Welwyn north if he's still a live he must be in his mid 80s i would have thought by now assuming that he was 65 in 1989?.

[hq1hitchin]

Harry Fitzgerald died in the 1980s. It's safe to assume that Cecil White must have died otherwise he would be about 100-105 yrs old by now?. Alan 'pedler' Palmer went to Kings Cross PSB shortly after WGC box closed in Sep '76 although he did work as a ticket collector on the footbridge at WGC station for about a month, i saw him on a couple of occasions at that time and he looked 'cheesed off' to say the least but i never saw or spoke to him again until by pure chance one Sat/night when i was taking a possession with Kings Cross PSB when i was a Signalman at Western Junction s/box in 1989. He told me that that was his 'last shift' and that he was retiring after that!. I remember that he lived somewhere around Welwyn north if he's still a live he must be in his mid 80s i would have thought by now assuming that he was 65 in 1989?.

Two former relief signalmen who signed Welwyn Garden City are still regular attendees at Hatfield - Tim Hatton and Dave Tilbury. Indeed, Tim was working it as far back as 1957 because her was called as a witness into the HMRI inquiry into the 1957 collision. Not sure if Roy Revell ever came that far south on a regular basis?

[Mickey]

Roy Revell use to be a relief signalman around Hitchin and Sandy and he use to work Letchworth, Baldock & Royston as well i think?. I believe Norman Greenwood is still around he must be about 80 now?. I was told by George Croft that Norman 'invented' the rubber possession stamp that was adopted by B.R. and 'mass produced' for the rest of the country!.

[hyperion]

Norman Greenwood finished off on the platform at Potters Bar 00000000! a few years back now.

Any remembrances of 'Cookie' at either Marshmoor or RedHall, used to chat to him - and others forgotten - on the Brookmans phone ?

How about old Jack Brown, SM round 'the Branch' until c.1985 and SM Wood Green before that - who I'm off to meet at this very moment for a glass or two, Master, and to put the world - railway and non - to rights. It's a fortnightly meet at 'Railway Bell', New Barnet, about 6, sometimes more, retired Rail.

Cheers

[Mickey]

Norman Greenwood was a sociable fella he use to show up at a box with his ruckshack slung over his back and his pipe in his mouth. The good thing about Norman was that he use to let the Telegraph lads have ago on the lever frame. I once spent 2 consecutive days with him at Harringay (passenger) about 6 months before the box closed in 1973 doing abit of 'lever bashing' and drinking sweet coffee and eating Battenburgh cake i seem to remember, good old days...

[StevieG]

The way that this thread is now going, I'm beginning to think that it will get transferred to the LNER People Forum, at any moment. So I've continued from posts here by starting a new one thread there, in "LNER Discussion" >> "LNER People" ; as "1960s etc. Ex-GN Main line in London district"

[Mickey]

Thats a good idea Stevie. By the way didn't you know of Gerry Ford at Welwyn north who was there from around 1967 or 68 to 73 when the box closed i thought that you may have remembered him he use to live somewhere around Stevenage old town.

[StevieG]

Sorry Micky, but no. Did go there several times, but only with N.E.G.: The furthest north that my 'visits' normally reached on the main line. (Only got to other places once or twice ever; Woolmer G., Knebw., Langley, Stev.N., Hitchin Yd., 3 Counties, Arlesey.)
And although originally from Hadley Highstone (nearest box Greenwood), only moved into N. Herts. area in '78.