Brookmans Park - Down side siding.

[Mickey]

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[AndyRush]

Wymondley Siding, a public goods facility, was located at 29m 66¼ch on the down side (connection mileage)

It opened in January 1888 (Wrottesley Vol.2) and closed to the public on 04.05.1964 (Clinker)

Regards

Andy

[Mickey]

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[Eightpot]

I see from a photo in the Ian Allan publication 'Locomotives Illustrated' No. 67 (Gresley two-cylinder 2-6-0s) at the bottom of page 22 that the siding near Brookmans Park was certainly in use circa 1937, judging by the shiny rail heads.

Marshmoor Box. Having lived all my life in Brookmans Park (Georges Wood Road for those familiar with the area) until moving away in 1999, I was quite familiar with this. Ceratainly back in the mid/late 1950s friendly signalmen would let one in (provided no Inspectors were around!) and even let one work the bell codes and pull the levers. One of the older ones (Arthur -------?) , who lived in one of the Railway cottages opposite, I recall being a bit of a modeller and building an L1 out of wood, this being about 1/24 scale.

Once or twice I even enjoyed footplate rides on an N2 which was on the late morning Down pick-up goods which shunted Marshmoor Sidings before continuing on to Hatfield. On another occasion a WD 2-8-0 was on this job and remember the protesting squeals from the tender wheels as it negotiated the sharply curved spur across the adjacent road to shunt a wagon into Massils (the woodturners) who were on the corner with the main road through Welham Green village.

At that time there was still the lengthy series of trailing crossover starting by the adjacent bridge on the Up Slow right over to the Down Slow and into the sidings adjacent to the signal box. Alas, all long gone, the site looks totally different today. Incidentally, am I right in believing that probably the last use of the sidings was the long wheelbase vans used for transporting Kellog's Corn Flakes. possibly to or from Germany?

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Remember the Kellog'svan trains in Marshmoor sidings, went past many times when they were shunting them in or out, with the little diesel shunter, never worked the train though, I think it was a Hitchin job
manna

[Mickey]

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[Eightpot]

The 0-4-0 Diesel Shunter belonged to Mowlems whose site was where the Tesco(?) warehousing complex is today. The Kellogg wagons were drawn into Mowlems depot then propelled out again, but on the other (west) side of their approach road. Mowlems aquired the Diesel about 1965 as a replacement for a Hudswell Clark 0-6-0 tank loco named 'London John', although I think it was previously named 'Bobby'. They also had at that time an 0-4-0 tank named 'Itchen'. Back in the early 1950s there were various other steam locos there, mainly named after places in the Southampton area, probably after being used there in the 1930s when Mowlems were involved in dock construction. Another loco was named 'Trafford Park', presumably after the Manchester district one.

[Mickey]

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[hyperion]

I remember Marshmoor sidings, the Kellog trains and the industrial shunter. Was there not in even more dim and distant days a private 0-6-0t employed here ?

My first job was in Potters Bar booking office in the new station in 1956 soon after the widening started, but as became usual with new clerks at 'The Bar', I was sent to Brookmans Park in 1957 where I worked early and late turn and turn about with the station master, dear old Hubert Daniels. Coal for the b.o. and waiting room fires was delivered seasonally by the Ferme Park - Peterborough pickup goods which stopped between locals on the down slow, with the coal wagon, usually first behind the WD, stopped by our bunker when the porter on duty and the guard would shovel our quota out under the watchful eye of loco crew and supervision of Mr. Daniels. One day we were told that the coal would be delivered and as the WD hove into sight by Hawkshead, porter Don nipped out to collect his shovel and Mr. Daniels put on his cap and followed to make sure the right amount was put in the right place. The WD sniffed and clanked past the lineside windows, there was a tremendous thud and twin cries of protest as the train carried on, non-stop, and moments later a very irate station master and porter, an irascible gentleman at the best of times, charged into the booking office and Mr. Daniels made straight for the Control phone. It turned out the pickup had delivered the coal alright - but in one huge lump dropped from the loco's tender. Mr. Daniels, usually a placid if sometimes cantankerous character, raised hell on the phone but I don't think anything came of the matter.

Many staff working in the London area lived in Welham Green then, long before the station of that name was built as mentioned in an earlier post, and often the booking office would be host to sundry inspectors, signalmen, station staff, all yarning away, reminiscing, saving the railway, not to mention the world, as they waited for their train, I learned much from those gatherings that held me in good stead for when I ventured out into the 'real' railway world. As somebody else said - all gone now.

[hyperion]

So there, Eightpot's confirmed the tank engine, yes I remember seeing 'London John' performing in Marshmoor. And Mickey brings up a name from the past - Fitzgerald, who's brother lived a few days from me in Potters Bar.

[StevieG]

The outward traffic was, I think, an evening job (as the long "Through"/'ladder' crossover that Eightpot mentions had, in the late '60s, been gone for several years, the train could only reach the Down Slow and had to leave northwards). Ran as 4M44 (running round at Welwyn G.C.?), to Willesden I think. The return I think was during the night (so I never saw it) and may have been 4E43.

Once "The Kellogg's", as the train was widely referred to, went by Marshmoor on the Up, and/or the up 'Wood Green Sand' (8B93?) or 1N42 down (2315 x KX?) went by Marshmoor, it was getting quite late and definitely time for 'assistant signalmen' (usu. with school next day in prospect) to go home.

I never saw the mentioned 1950s 'London John' private loco, but the 'Mowlem's loco that was there somewhere by 1968 (but I rarely saw, and never closely), I thought was called 'London John' (though now I wonder). Could it have perpetuated the older name in that way? Or actually have been something like 'London John II'?

[StevieG]

Just remembered being related a reminiscence by 'my' favourite reliefman who was often rostered to Marshmoor, that has elements rather similar to the Brookmans Park story.
This was that an older chap, Alec Temple, said to be a bit of a 'cadger', (but may not have been alone in this amongst other who perhaps also did so), used to try getting a bit of extra coal by begging off the fireman of locos bringing inward traffic or to shunt the sidings, as they slowly passed the box while setting back through the southern entry points into the sidings, and then placing an empty coal bucket close to those points, near the bottom of the box stairs.
One day as the loco passed when leaving, a cheery wave was received (probably from a crew well used to repeated such requests from Alec), such as to indicate that coal had been left.
It was said that then, when he could, Alec went down to collect the coal-in-bucket to find that coal had indeed been left : - What might have been about the largest piece the crew could find and lift, dropped straight onto the bucket from the cab, the bucket having thereby been reduced to only about four inches tall !

[Mickey]

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[Eightpot]

Picking up on comments by hyperion and Stevie G. I recall that Mr. Daniels, the BP SM always wore his LNER issue stationmasters cap, never saw him with a BR one. Remember seeing the coal delivery train, but don't recall WDs on it, only J6s. As there were none based at Hatfield, I presume that this could have been a Hitchin job.

I have a feeling (stand to be corrected) that the Mowlem Diesel got fitted with the 'London John' plates when the steam loco was retired. Off topic, but the Mowlem house magazine was also entitled 'London John'.

Alec Temple - was he the shunter character who wore a cloth cap, and if I recall (now over 50 years ago!) had his own little office hut within the sidings?

[StevieG]

" Picking up on comments by hyperion and Stevie G. .... "
" .... Alec Temple - was he the shunter character who wore a cloth cap, and if I recall (now over 50 years ago!) had his own little office hut within the sidings?

No, Eight. Sorry, I should have made it clearer ; Alec was another relief signalman, of some considerable years and experience I believe (had once worked as far away as Abbots Ripton I think), and apparently thought a bit of an extrovert fuss-pot type of character.

Another tale of him related to me around 1968 concerned some sort of incident several years earlier, involving Alec on duty at Marshmoor one evening, and his hearing a sharp crack and tinkling glass as a steam-hauled down express passed.
Soon finding, on investigation, a new small hole in one of the window panes, he immediately reported having been shot at by someone aboard the express, and the train was halted at Hatfield and thoroughly searched by the police, causing much delay and some disruption. Nothing relevant was apparently found aboard, and I got the impression that suspicions of exaggeration and over-dramatising fell on Alec, but understandably no action was taken.

Alec's reputation about this probably wasn't helped when, not too long after, another signalman presumably decided to give the place a good clean-up for some reason, or maybe just wanted to retrieve something dropped between the back of the cupboard-top Train Register Book writing desk and the back wall. On moving the desk, he found a small but sharp piece of coal resting there, roughly diagonally opposite the 'shot-through' window pane ....

This episode resulted in the appearance of a caricature, skilfully drawn by signalman Albert Coe who had something of a talent in that way (worked at Hatfield No.3, possibly at the time, certainly by the late '60s; later moved to Finsbury Park No.3, Fins.Park portakabin temporary power box, and ultimately King's Cross PSB), of Alec in american western gunfighter-style pose ready to draw his six-shooters, and captioned something like "OK, let 'em come, Ah'm ready for 'em !".