Returning to Grantham

[61070]

It's amazing what gems you pick up on here. 61835 must have been the only K3 I ever saw and I had almost persuaded myself that I couldn't have seen it! Thanks Andy W.

Over the weekend I've gathered some more background on the lead-up to the closure of Grantham mpd from The Grantham Journal. Having already quoted from the account of the final motive power department annual staff dinner held in February 1963, I found reference to the same event the previous year (held on 24th Feb 1962). This was before the closure was announced and, not surprisingly, it makes a real contrast in terms of expectation.

MOTIVE POWER MEN DINE AT GRANTHAM
…
Tribute to the excellent service rendered by Mr W.E. Brown, who shortly retires as running foreman, was paid by the chairman, Mr F.C. Richardson, who urged the younger men present to accept Mr Brown's record as an example.

"Let's face it," he said. "We are short of firemen. Go out among your friends and tell them of the great career that could be theirs. One day some of you may be in Mr Brown's position, and although I will not be here to see it, I want you to have a record of fine service such as he possesses.

"Why, one of you youngsters may even reach the heights the gentleman on my left has aspired to," he remarked, pointing to Coun. W.O. Heath, Grantham's Mayor-elect, who is a local railwayman, and who was among those present.
…

Evidence of the importance of the railway to the town is given in the following statistics from a short feature published on Sept 7th 1962 announcing the modernisation of the station, '£10,000 scheme to brighten up Grantham's railway station': At the moment there are something like 200 people employed at the station, out of a total railway population in the region of 1,000 at Grantham.

The official announcement of the closure of Grantham mpd came on Thursday November 15th 1962, the proposal having been 'leaked' to the press the previous Friday.

Finally two more pictures, these from August 15th 1963:

1. Station Inspector Phil Craft and Bert Graham cross the goods loop lines from the direction of the shed offices, seen from platform 5. Bert maintained the gas lamps on railway property at Grantham.

2. I expect that the sale of ice cream from the platforms at Grantham in the summer was profitable because the locomotive changes allowed time for demand to be satisfied. The sign on each barrow says:

all that's best in
7d Ice Cream 1/3
Lyons Maid, Eldorado, Neilson

Immediately below each sign is a glazed cabinet illustrating the lines available.

A young spotter's keeping clear of trouble by trying to make himself inconspicuous in the background.

[strang steel]

I wonder what they sold for 1/3 ?

From memory that would be about the price of a family block of ice cream in those cardboard packets. My Dad sometimes used to buy them (together with a number of wafers) on the way back from the chip shop and the block would be cut into slices, a wafer added to either side and these would be eaten for pudding after the fish and chips, for Saturday lunch.

However, I cannot imagine that procedure being too convenient on a station platform, or in a railway compartment.

I presume that the smaller single 'bars' of ice cream would be 7d, either in a rectangular topped cornet or between two wafers, (always guaranteed to melt and drip down your best clothes). Maybe choc ices were 1/3. I wouldn't know, as they were far too expensive for my parents to indulge in.

Happy days......


John

[61070]

Back from holiday…

Yes, I think you're right about the price of those blocks of ice cream – we always used to have ours with tinned fruit as part of our tea on Sundays. Do you remember also the much smaller blocks, about the size of a choc-ice but without the chocolate covering, that were wrapped in paper and fitted into rectangular cornets? There were also cylindrical ones which fitted round cornets.

Now let's head back 47 years to another of our trips to Grantham, on August 22nd 1963.

1. Station announcers are usually ‘heard but not seen’. At Grantham they occupied a tiny room which, I seem to remember, was reached from the footbridge steps, on the ‘up’ side. This lady is Dorothy Ross.

The Railway Review / National Union of Railwaymen calendar is a reminder, though one scarcely needed on this forum, of the importance to railway staff of their trades unions. The General Secretary of the NUR from 1957 to 1975, throughout the upheavals caused by modernisation and rationalisation was Sid Greene. Greene reportedly described himself as a ‘centre-of-the-road Socialist’ who accepted the need for change.

2. This is one of the Carriage & Wagon Examiners cleaning out a carbide lamp. This type of lamp burns acetylene gas, which was generated internally from water and calcium carbide. The acetylene gave an intense white light by which the examiners could see to do their work at night.

The top of the lamp is on its side on the ground, next to the man’s left foot, with the circular glass front reflecting toward the camera. Behind the glass and the reflector is a small tank for water, and there is a valve to allow the water to drip slowly down onto the carbide. In the man’s hand is the lower part of the lamp, which is a container for the calcium carbide (CaC2). The water dripping onto the carbide produces acetylene gas, C2H2, which issued through the small burner that can be seen against the brickwork of the building, in front of the man’s fingers. After use the residue is calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2, a white substance which is being broken up and disposed of into the bucket.

Carbide lamps were widely used on cars, motorcycles and bicycles before electric lighting, and also in mining and caving.

3. Looking south from the end of platform 3. I have 'at the ready' a pair of those cheap plastic binoculars that you could buy from the likes of Woolworths with a bit of saved-up pocket money!

More to follow...

[61070]

Three more from August 22nd 1963:

4. This Karrier ‘Bantam’ delivery van is earning some advertising revenue for the railway by promoting a Grantham chemist’s indigestion remedy.

5. 60054 Prince of Wales of Grantham mpd is on an up parcels train at the south end of platform 2.

6. A nice backlit shot of three railwaymen at the south end of the ‘down’ platform. The reason for the 'gesture' will, of course, forever remain a mystery - as will its intended recipient. Two of the men are Fireman Percy Lindley (centre) and Driver Chris Reeves (right). The man indicating, presumably, that the next train will be along in a couple of minutes is thought to be a shunter (the chain attached to the lapel of his jacket would be attached to a whistle).

[strang steel]

More excellent photos, thanks very much.

On the south end picture I wonder where the 2-car diesel unit is going? I dont think there was a local service to Peterborough by then, as all the intermediate stations had closed.

Maybe it is just going to reverse across the tracks and run back into the Nottingham platform?

John

[PGBerrie]

I wonder what they sold for 1/3 ?

The 7d might have been a "Zoom" lolly, so may be a king size sandwich was 1/3d - I seem to remember there were thicker ones. If you are into ice cream try this http://www.kzwp.com/lyons/group2.htm. I seem to remember the early sixties also saw the arrival of Mr Whippy and Mr. Softie, also in Karrier vans?

The photos are as always superb!

Peter

[strang steel]

I wonder what they sold for 1/3 ?

The 7d might have been a "Zoom" lolly, so may be a king size sandwich was 1/3d - I seem to remember there were thicker ones. If you are into ice cream try this http://www.kzwp.com/lyons/group2.htm.
Peter

Oh my. That website may be more than I can take.

The blurb says (of the Fab lolly introduced in 1967) "Designed primarily for the 3 million girls in Britain aged 5-15." I loved those, and never realised until now that I may have been in touch with my feminine side, or whatever the modern terminology is.

Going off at an even greater tangent concerning flavoured ice cream, I remember an ice cream shop at Skegness, somewhere not far from the station, that sold about a dozen different flavours of ice cream (lemon, lime, raspberry etc as well as chocolate and vanilla).

It was a difficult task for parents to get us kids from the station to the sea front on a route that avoided that shop.

John

[61070]

Now, how are we going to reel in this deliciously diverse topic from ice cream and lolly delights back to the pleasures of watching the trains, and life, go by at Grantham railway station? That's easy – follow these 7 steps!

1. We'll start with the Lyons Maid history website introduced to us by Peter (http://www.kzwp.com/lyons/group2.htm).

2. Find Zoom, introduced for summer 1963: Lyons Maid first 6d ice lolly. Shaped like a rocket, with lime, lemon and strawberry flavours place in horizontal stripes of colour. Picture cards put in wrappers for first time.

3. Now go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdo96smXw0k (and, if really smitten by 1960s cinema advertising, try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY0xzYOnihE , which leads off with a somewhat suggestive [or is it all totally innocent?] toothpaste promotion, and advertises Zoom at 2:12).

4. In 1964 the card series became 'Famous Locomotives', and the brand was promoted by a competition for the 2,100 seats on several 'Zoom Express' special trains, for lovers of lollies and locomotives, in August and September. 'A whole day to spot hundreds of trains, free picnic lunch and tea; and a visit to a Railway Museum! Special guides will look after you there and back.' One of the trains called at Grantham en route to the Railway Museum at York (getting close now!).

5. A rummage in my 'box under the bed' has produced my almost complete album of these cards. Many were collected at great risk (and with significant parental disapproval) from the wrappers of non-collectors that had been discarded in open wire mesh litter bins at the local park, while fending off dozens of wasps.

In the album, Lyons Maid acknowledges the help of the BR Board and the Curator of the Museum of British Transport, Clapham. The album's introduction begins with the prophesy that "By 1970 there will probably be only a handful of steam engines operating on British Railways…" It lists locomotives then preserved at the museums in Swindon, Clapham and York, together with several still in service but scheduled for preservation.

6. Card No. 37 features 4-6-2 No.17 "Silver Fox", although it's illustrated as 60017.

7. Here's 60017 coasting through Grantham in lovely, clean condition almost 48 years ago to the day, on 16th August 1962.

If you're still with me, I think we've made it!

p.s. - as I mentioned above, my Famous Locomotives card album's not quite complete. Does anyone out there have swaps of No.18 (CR 4-2-2 No.123) and No.38 (SR 0-6-0 No. C38 - presumably aka 33038) from the series of 40?

[rob237]

Yet more gems...many thanks.

60017, on Card 37, seems to set some painting precedent for 60008 at Green Bay Museum

The coasting Silver Fox shows that Top Shed cleaning standards never slipped!
Recall Bachmann introducing a weathered Golden Fleece, with a 34A plate, causing Peter Townend to go berserk...

Cheers
Robt P.

[Andy W]

P.N.T. going berserk - don't go there. I've seen him when he is angry - I used to be one of his technical clerks at DME KX. He wasn't ever angry at me but it was always about something someone else hadn't done! He was an old school guv'nor but very fair to me. I can imagine he wouldn't have been pleased about No.30 coming out mucky!

Those latest selection of Grantham shots are gems. The DMU is, I am guessing from the head out of the back, a shunt move. From my 1963 WTT there were a number of afternoon trains that used to arrive together and then lay over for quite some time. I suspect we are seeing the driver drawing forward before he gets the signal from the back to say that he has cleared something or other. There also appears to be no up main line signal off in the distance.

In the two minute salute shot we see a Gresley BFK in the background. These were long lasting vehicles (several being built in the middle 1930's to early wartime) and quite common on the ECML right up until 1964, this particular one lasting until late that year. BFK vehicles were popular vehicles on the ECML right up to the Mk IID BFK.

[workev]

I discovered this forum last week and especially found this thread a fantastic read, with some great photos and to cap it all its full of really useful information too!

I've always found Grantham an interesting station, and whilst my time was from the late 1970s onwards, thus missing steam, I always looked forward to my journies on the Harwich Boat train from home in Suffolk to Manchester (to University) all the better for the thrash between Grantham and Peterborough. In recent times I have caught the train from Grantham to London, so admired the way the station was run in GNER days and it alwasy seemed to capture the bygone era.

I have seen the wasteland where the shed once stood being gradually taken over by new builds, but still the ambience still remains. To that end whilst looking for somewhere to model, Grantham in the late 1950s/early 1960s captures everything I want. Steam and Deltics, plus a shed for all the atmosphere.

It seems though that details on Grantham shed are few and far between, track layouts for Grantham are not held at the NRM (so National Archives are my next call), and I need to find plans for the buildings. This thread can provide me with some things, and 61070 has pomited me in the right direction as well.

Any further ideas or help people can offer me would be gratefully appreciated, and in time I will try and start putting pictures on a thread in the Model Rail section.

Being born in Newcastle the ECML has always been my line, so thanks everyone for giving such a great forum an air of nostalgia and history of railway life.

Ian

[rob237]

Welcome to the group...we'll look forward to your Grantham layout progress reports/pics.

With simply 'two lines through', and the Barrowby curve placed at the end of the baseboards - a la 'Stoke Summit', it's perhaps somewhat surprising that - as far as I'm aware - no major Grantham layout exists. For inspiration on modelling the ECML from the 50's/60's look no further than Roy Jackson's magnificent EM gauge 'Retford', which I understand is shortly to be released on DVD by Activity Media.

Do appreciate that the basics of Grantham have changed not at all since the 50's.
Major differences being the removal of much complex pointwork at either end (often featured in John's pictures) and, of course, the shed demolition. As one of most photographed of the ECML stations, plenty of material should be available to you.

The 70's 'European' boat train had its own fascination with it's Stratford silver top 47's and Gresley buffet E9135. Once travelled on it from Peterborough to Sheffield primarily to sample E9135, where I remained for the whole journey!
The steward treating me with grave suspicion...

Cheers
Robt P.

[mossie]

There is a track plan for Grantham in the book "Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds Vol.1". The plan on page 93 shows the engine shed and station and is dated 1956.

I am looking at building a layout of Hatfield, Hertfordshire in the future. At the moment I am just gathering information.

I hope the above is of some help.

Regards

Richard

[AndyRush]

..Snipped>>With simply 'two lines through', and the Barrowby curve placed at the end of the baseboards - a la 'Stoke Summit', it's perhaps somewhat surprising that - as far as I'm aware - no major Grantham layout exists. ..Snipped>>Robt P.

A P4 layout of Grantham is under construction and, although I haven't seen it, favourable comments from the likes of Chris Pendlenton and Bob How means it should be pretty good when it is eventually publicised.

Regards

Andy

[workev]

A P4 layout of Grantham is under construction and, although I haven't seen it, favourable comments from the likes of Chris Pendlenton and Bob How means it should be pretty good when it is eventually publicised.

Oh dear, I wont be able to compete with the finescale boys......

I spotted the Harwich Boat train from 1976 until its demise, not sure I can remember the Gresley Buffet, when did it stop being used? I remember all sorts of stock on it as well, some Mk1s, Mk2s (non and air-conditioned). I remember in 1977 it ran with the Union Jack locos of 47 163/164 so I guess that was in the days of steam heat (will need to check my records).

I do remember that Grantham would always throw up a loco or two in the yard, sometimes stabled. Were these long lay overs, or just waiting for paths?

Ian