Tornado Failure

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Bryan
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by Bryan »

strang steel wrote:
PGBerrie wrote: The sizzling, the smoke, the steam, the smell of oil - not the constant whistling which seems to plague all preserved lines.
It is not just the engines' whistling that annoys me, but also the incessant 'train' noises emitted by children and their parents. I know preserved lines need to attract families, but some are fast turning into childrens playgrounds.

But, I am just a miserable old git, so wont get onto the subject of kids running up and down carriages shouting loudly.

John
The only trouble is most railways and museums need the sources of the noise.
They are paying for the rides and all the tat etc in the shops that keeps the places going.
Mickey

Re: Tornado Failure

Post by Mickey »

I got into a bit of bother a few weeks ago on this subject but i tend to agree with some of the previously made comments although some of the things that the preservation movement have achieved in the last 40 years have been very good especially rescuing mainly scrapped ex-G.W.R./S.R./B.R. standard locomotives from Barry. Me being a 'railway traditionalist' does find some of the preservation movement a bit hard to understand one example being the Gresley A3 Flying Scotsman running in L.N.E.R. apple green livery with her L.N.E.R. no.4472 but carring German smoke deflectors?. Hardly authentic and what that is all about is anyone's guess or maybe Mr.Branson thinks it makes the loco look 'really cool man'?.
Bill Bedford
LNER A3 4-6-2
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by Bill Bedford »

mr B wrote:I agree with the above, its the same in the museums , too many hands on kiddys play things that do not relate to the subject.

mr B .. another grumpy old git :evil:
Time to get in touch with your inner child, methinks........
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coachmann
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by coachmann »

It would be neat to recreate steam branchlines as they actually were, but equally impossible to recreate a society that existed in the steam era. Screaming kiddies are a fact of life, god bless 'em, but isn't it good that we can still stand by a steam engine soaking up the smell of steam and oil....!

We older citizens have our memories of the real days of steam and I for one consider myself lucky to have been born when I was.
S.A.C. Martin

Re: Tornado Failure

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Micky wrote:I got into a bit of bother a few weeks ago on this subject but i tend to agree with some of the previously made comments although some of the things that the preservation movement have achieved in the last 40 years have been very good especially rescuing mainly scrapped ex-G.W.R./S.R./B.R. standard locomotives from Barry. Me being a 'railway traditionalist' does find some of the preservation movement a bit hard to understand one example being the Gresley A3 Flying Scotsman running in L.N.E.R. apple green livery with her L.N.E.R. no.4472 but carring German smoke deflectors?. Hardly authentic and what that is all about is anyone's guess or maybe Mr.Branson thinks it makes the loco look 'really cool man'?.
Micky, read this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3057

It has absolutely nothing to do with Richard Branson - honest! :lol:

It has, now that I have spoken to a few relevant people at the NRM, everything to do with operational capability while out on the mainline, and the understandable brand strength of the LNER livery. Not saying it is right, but there are reasons behind it.

Am surprised you didn't mention the pink scot instead!
adge
LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by adge »

If you and your pals can raise the cash then why don't you find a disused stretch of line you can renovate and use to your heart's content while banning anyone who doesn't know his 4-6-2 from his 4472 and who insists on eating an ice cream while looking at your favourite period piece? All the amateur photographers who insist on screaming abuse at anybody who spoils their precious shot could snap away happily there too. Simply, if you don't like the current state of the preservation movement either do it yourself or don't go. Fulfill your passion looking at old photographs and DVDs. Me? I'll support them all I can - it may not be authentic but it's the best we've got and a darn sight better than we thought we'd have back in 1968.
Mickey

Re: Tornado Failure

Post by Mickey »

I must admit guy's i prefer British steam up to when it finished in this country in August 1968 (Black 5s and 8Fs and the ex G.W.R. RED 57XX Pannier tanks working on London Underground until June 1971. I'm an L.M.S./G.W.R. fan a heart :wink: ). BUT each to there own guy's the preservation movement in this country has done MAGNIFICENT WORK over the last 40-45 years well done to everyone involved. :D
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strang steel
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by strang steel »

adge wrote:If you and your pals can raise the cash then why don't you find a disused stretch of line you can renovate and use to your heart's content while banning anyone who doesn't know his 4-6-2 from his 4472 and who insists on eating an ice cream while looking at your favourite period piece? All the amateur photographers who insist on screaming abuse at anybody who spoils their precious shot could snap away happily there too. Simply, if you don't like the current state of the preservation movement either do it yourself or don't go. Fulfill your passion looking at old photographs and DVDs. Me? I'll support them all I can - it may not be authentic but it's the best we've got and a darn sight better than we thought we'd have back in 1968.

Yes, I do agree with your sentiment. I dont like a number of the preservation sites, so I dont go. I save my money and spend it on dvds of railways pre-1968 and wallow in nostalgia that way.

There are some preserved railways that I consider better than others, but I will keep my choices to myself for fear of disturbing the hornets nest that seems to be those who cannot cope with others having (a) a minority opinion, and (b) an opinion which differs from theirs.

My other main gripe concerning preserved lines, is the one engine in steam policy. I realise that this is due to costs, but I find it really boring, and I wonder how many people are put off by the lack of any activity except when the timetabled train is in the station?

Once the train arrives, the loco gets uncoupled, runs round the train/fills up with water, and couples onto the other end of the train and waits for the departure time. Otherwise, nothing happens.

In steam days, many stations had a pilot whose job it was to shunt stock into different platforms and make up trains. Would it really be beyond the finances of certain preserved lines to have an 0-6-0 loco (or similar), that pottered around the station area shunting empty stock and parcels vans all day? There may be no point in it operationally, but it comes a little closer to realism and gives the average punter something to look at between the arrival and departure of scheduled trains.

With a bit of imagination, this could be extended to a non-timetabled 'parcels' or empty stock working along the line, which could even load and unload fake large crates or boxes at each station, to give an impression of what certain station work involved.

John
John.

My spotting log website is at https://spottinglogs.co.uk/spotting-rec ... s-70s-80s/

And my spotters' b&w photo site is at http://spottinglogs.blog
S.A.C. Martin

Re: Tornado Failure

Post by S.A.C. Martin »

Something I keep finding myself repeating - "reality check".
strang steel wrote: Yes, I do agree with your sentiment. I dont like a number of the preservation sites, so I dont go. I save my money and spend it on dvds of railways pre-1968 and wallow in nostalgia that way.
Fair enough. Your choice.
There are some preserved railways that I consider better than others, but I will keep my choices to myself for fear of disturbing the hornets nest that seems to be those who cannot cope with others having (a) a minority opinion, and (b) an opinion which differs from theirs.
If you post contentiously about preserved railways, when you know there are preservation volunteers on the forum, you should not be overly surprised to get a retort from said people in response. Cause, and effect. As for opinion - we are all entitled to one - it does not mean to say that every opinion is on an equal footing.
My other main gripe concerning preserved lines, is the one engine in steam policy. I realise that this is due to costs, but I find it really boring, and I wonder how many people are put off by the lack of any activity except when the timetabled train is in the station?
You said it yourself - costs! :roll: Sometimes the lack of activity is unavoidable. If they can't afford to run more than one engine in steam, surely that is understandable and not to be derided?
Once the train arrives, the loco gets uncoupled, runs round the train/fills up with water, and couples onto the other end of the train and waits for the departure time. Otherwise, nothing happens.
You have essentially described almost every single preserved steam railway in Great Britain.
In steam days, many stations had a pilot whose job it was to shunt stock into different platforms and make up trains. Would it really be beyond the finances of certain preserved lines to have an 0-6-0 loco (or similar), that pottered around the station area shunting empty stock and parcels vans all day? There may be no point in it operationally, but it comes a little closer to realism and gives the average punter something to look at between the arrival and departure of scheduled trains.
That however, is a good point. But they may not have an 0-6-0 in the first place, nor the funds to keep both the main attraction and the shunter in steam at the same time. Further, although there are several railways which have a plethora of stations and platforms with which to do this maneuver (my own GCR comes to mind), most of the preserved (standard gauge) railways in Britain are single track for the most part - I'm not sure the infrastructure is there for this to be an economically viable proposition. Now I could see the GCR Jinty doing this at Loughborough Central, or pottering about in the yard at Quorn & Woodhouse...
With a bit of imagination, this could be extended to a non-timetabled 'parcels' or empty stock working along the line, which could even load and unload fake large crates or boxes at each station, to give an impression of what certain station work involved.

John
I like the idea John, I really do. Several of the "big players" in preservation - GCR, Severn Valley, and similar, could well do this - a demonstration parcels train arriving into Loughborough to be unloaded would be a great sight. But it's not just cost - it's finding the extra volunteers to work the station to make the event. You can't draft in people anymore who would otherwise be doing another job on the platform - H&S making sure everyone knows their place, job and time of executing it too.
mr B
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by mr B »

I think those that critisize are the ones that lost out on taking photos durring the 50's early 60's, they will pull others pictures to bits be it either still or cine, of witch I have 100s & 100s of both 9.5, 8mm and super 8 footage, taken by myself. So please before you critisize,,,lets see your efforts.

mr B
Yorkshire Exile
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by Yorkshire Exile »

Gentlemen
What on earth do the majority of recent posts have to do with the stay relacement work on 60163?
LNER Fan 60008
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Location: Wisconsin, USA

My view.

Post by LNER Fan 60008 »

Absolutly nothing. :roll:

Accidents happen, on preserved lines and main lines, end of story. As long as Tornado doesn't have succesive failures from now on, I don't think there's much of a problem. Would we be in the same argument if this were an older engine with a broken stay? Probably.
ooOOOo-oooo--o-o-----o-o-o-o---------o-o-o-o--------o-o
jwealleans
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by jwealleans »

Still on the evolved rather than the original subject, I understand that there is a proposal to use the J72 as a station pilot at Grosmont in the future.
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Autocar Publicity
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by Autocar Publicity »

On the pilot/lack of activity between trains comment, if loco availability permits, how about operating 'turn up and drive' driver experiences up and down the station/siding/yard for £5 or £10? Hopefully covers the coal costs of the engine and keeps waiting passengers entertained.
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Flamingo
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Re: Tornado Failure

Post by Flamingo »

strang steel wrote:
adge wrote:If you and your pals can raise the cash then why don't you find a disused stretch of line you can renovate and use to your heart's content while banning anyone who doesn't know his 4-6-2 from his 4472 and who insists on eating an ice cream while looking at your favourite period piece? All the amateur photographers who insist on screaming abuse at anybody who spoils their precious shot could snap away happily there too. Simply, if you don't like the current state of the preservation movement either do it yourself or don't go. Fulfill your passion looking at old photographs and DVDs. Me? I'll support them all I can - it may not be authentic but it's the best we've got and a darn sight better than we thought we'd have back in 1968.

My other main gripe concerning preserved lines, is the one engine in steam policy. I realise that this is due to costs, but I find it really boring, and I wonder how many people are put off by the lack of any activity except when the timetabled train is in the station?

Once the train arrives, the loco gets uncoupled, runs round the train/fills up with water, and couples onto the other end of the train and waits for the departure time. Otherwise, nothing happens.

John
Two major problems to be overcome here:
1. Many stations at the end of preserved lines lack the track and signalling
facilities to permit operations such as casual shunting. The rules under which such places operate are usually of the ' one engine in steam' type. Without a fully signalled layout, you're stuck with the run-round.

2. Extra costs and finding extra crews. Sometimes its not always that easy to find crews to cover the booked timetabled service.

Another and purely mercenary reason: you don't want visitors standing outside on platforms watching shunting taking place - you want them in your souvenir shops or catering facilities spending money. Sorry, but that's a fact of life, without cash flow your railway can be as realistic as it aspires to be; it just won't be able to afford to run, that's all.
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