WIDENED LINES - 1970s

[hq1hitchin]

Slightly off tpoic but does any one remember "The Local" cafe/bar on the suburban station concourse?. The place used to smell of tabaco smoke and damp raincoats. The windows were nearly always dripping with condensation and the decor was mainly formed of formica and plastic surfaces. Rather cramped and limited range of drinks. I used to buy a coffee sometimes but would drink it out on the platforms as the air was usually thick with cigarette smoke inside the local.

Yes, sort of art deco 1930s windows - and Andy Wilky's uniform stores upstairs? Certainly railway refreshment rooms often weren't the most pleasant places to pass a half hour or so

[Mickey]

There use to be a railman during the late 60s/early/mid 70s who's job it was to trim the wicks and refill the tail lamps of trains arriving and getting them ready again for departing trains from the suburban platforms (anyone remember him?). He use to leave the tail lamps on a station trolley on the suburban platforms for the guards who were working trains out of Kings Cross usually formed of Craven units or Rolls Royce sets. I think the railman concerned usually could be seen entering and leaving the buffet/bar on the suburban station throughout the day. Micky

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Hitchin, thanks for reminding us/we of the clothing store, I had forgotten, about that! funny thing about railway uniforms, they could never get it right, tell them you were a 32" inside leg and they came back as a 42" or 19" inside leg, mine always come as a 42", they had to be taken up before you could wear them, was'nt there a good size window in the clothing store, that afforded a great view over the surburban platforms (11,12,13)

Micky, I remember the trolley full of tail lights, but there was another on platform 6, looked like a tea trolley, parked about 20' from the barrier, had the full tail lights on the top shelf and all the bits and pieces on the bottom shelf, the empty ones were on the floor.
manna

[Andy W]

Andy Wilky and his uniform store - that brings back some memories - got my first "cardboard" raincoat from that store. I'm a fairly tall guy but that thing was nearly round my ankles. It was so new and stiff that when I got home I stood it up in a corner! It was very heavily waxed and the rain just ran off it but then went straight onto the bottom of my trousers.

Still got my first yellow vest that I got from there - rubber buttons and all.

Railway uniforms were made in some funny places, a lot of them with "HMP" before the location. Sizes could be very approximate and when it came to the yearly issue of overalls for the ODM workshop staff at KX Wellers Court, it was swapsies in the messrooom to see who could get the best fit! One bloke they never could get anywhere near right was Andy Anastasiou, one of the ODM shiftmen. He was about 5ft 6in tall but a keen bodybuilder, with a body shape like an inverted triangle. They usually thought the measurements were the wrong way round and gave him something that looked like a tent!

The mention of Stushy Goddard brought back a few memories of his widow Grace (daughter of Arthur Taylor - see People Fireman of Slilver Link topic). She was proud of his exploit on the Widened Lines and, even years later, his unexpected death on the Suburban was still a very raw subject. The Taylor family were a very "GN" family and intensely proud to be railwaymen, and woman.

[Mickey]

Back around 1980 i had two 'BR black long great coats' with 4 silver buttons which i havan't got anymore (mores the pity) but for a number of years up to about 5 years ago when i still had one of them left i use to like pulling it over me when i was going to sleep at night because it was quilted and very warm. Not for me the comforts of a duvet or sheets and blankets thats stuff is for NON RAILWAY MINDED PEOPLE. If your into railways IT'S TOTAL 24/7 no half measures. Micky G.N.R./L.N.E.R.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
I thought this might be of interest---http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/ChathamConMoorgate.pdf

manna

[Mickey]

I passed by Kings Cross yesterday (Saturday) on the top deck on a 390 bus going up York Way and on passing KINGS X PSB noticed that an extension had been built onto the front of the POWER BOX that protuded wayout over the old York Road platform some way. Also the area of the old 'Passenger loco' on the down side of the line just before Gas Works tunnel has been built on and two Network Rail office blocks (Network Rail logo and name stencilled on the side of the buildings) stands there now giving a 'cluttered' effect. The track & points work around the area of 'the throat' seems to have been further 'simplified' from my vantage point and also what with the demolition of the old tenement blocks where the milk dock use to be that whole area now cleared for re-development Kings Cross isn't like i remember it anymore from the late 60s/70s. Micky

[robertcwp]

I passed by Kings Cross yesterday (Saturday) on the top deck on a 390 bus going up York Way and on passing KINGS X PSB noticed that an extension had been built onto the front of the POWER BOX that protuded wayout over the old York Road platform some way. Also the area of the old 'Passenger loco' on the down side of the line just before Gas Works tunnel has been built on and two Network Rail office blocks (Network Rail logo and name stencilled on the side of the buildings) stands there now giving a 'cluttered' effect. The track & points work around the area of 'the throat' seems to have been further 'simplified' from my vantage point and also what with the demolition of the old tenement blocks where the milk dock use to be that whole area now cleared for re-development Kings Cross isn't like i remember it anymore from the late 60s/70s. Micky

On the side neareast York Way, the recent track alterations have been to provide the new Platform 0 on the one-time cab road. York Way itself is on a new alignment between the former York Road Tube Station and the North London Line, as the old viaduct was demolished in connection with the construction of the high-speed line into St Pancras and the new (as yet trackless) link from the GN at Belle Isle to the Thameslink north of St Pancras, which will eventually restore the link between the GN and the Widened Lines (as far as Farringdon).

[Mickey]

Further on up the road on top of the 390 bus going up York Road towards the Brecknock (yesterday Saturday) we passed the old Kings Cross Goods yard or whats left of it (not very much although there is some new looking buildings on the site) and view the wide open expanse of the former Goods yard and from an earlier time Kings Cross top shed as well which is all very much flat waste ground now with the high speed channel tunnel route cutting across from left to right. The 390 bus dipped down as the road cut across the floor of the former Goods yard at Five Arch shunting frame before rising again and passing under the channel tunnel rail link and the North London line. To my right i just glimpsed the former area of Goods & Mineral Junction s/box and Belle Isle that if one didn't know what the area was like 35-40 years ago couldn't imagine it now or to a younger generation who wouldn't imagine what it was like back then?. The area that was Belle Isle and Goods & Mineral Junction was by and large waste ground dotted with foliage with the start of the channel tunnel grey painted TUNNEL crossing high above over the ECML with the old North London line bridge as well behind that at a higher level. A far cry from the 6 or 7 roads coming out of Kings Cross Goods yard with semaphore signal gantrys and Goods & Mineral Junction s/box standing tall against the brick retaining wall like i like to remember it back in 1970-75. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R.

[52D]

In case you chaps have missed this link i have repeated it here video-link-t3857.html

[CVR1865]

This thread is great. The link above is really good to a great widened lines film. I was on the North London line on Monday, took the East London Line from New cross then changed at Dalston to the NLL. The whole area around the Cross is carved by the High speed line with the space I think Micky is referring to being a well covered grassed area, I wasn't aware that was Kings Cross Goods Yard.

The NLL also shows up some architecture around Liverpool Street but that is for another thread.

[Mickey]

Hey CVR1865 thanks for the name check makes me feel good. Yes the 'old Kings Cross Goods yard' for some reason i'm feeling quite 'sentimental' about that whole area lately i wish they would put the place back to the way it was in 1969/70 with Five Arch shunting frame and Goods & Mineral Junction s/box back where it should be. Talk about destroying our heritage in this country???. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R.

[hq1hitchin]

I must say that i had heard of the little signal box at the bottom of the spiral staircase before several years ago, i believe access was gained from street level via a 'man hole cover' if you can believe that!. Micky GNR/L.N.E.R.

After privatisation in 1997 I, along with loads of others, was made redundant but obtained some occasional work and did a couple of weeks for Thameslink as it was then, in early 1998. They gave me the job of organising a 'table top' exercise for some Brighton drivers which involved an imaginary incident in the tunnels under St Pancras, and the BTP were involved as well. One thing we tested was radio communication in the tunnel and I can well remember the West Hampstead MOM (Mobile Operations Manager), Bob Denton, turning up at Pancras with the key to the spiral staircase. Access was through a little steel door down in the corner of the cab road leading from the archway by the booking hall down into Midland Road. Going down the staircase can best be described as akin to climbing into a dirty chimney - a very narrow one at that. I think this is why it never featured in emergency plans as it would have been awkward, for instance, for firemen wearing breathing apparatus to use it, never mind poor Joe Public. Anyway, we went down and came out disorientated straight onto the lineside and there, in the gloom, was the remains of St Pancras Tunnel box - still with the glass windows and even the remains of an electric fan inside. The lever frame and block instruments had long gone, and we didn't hang about either as it was a creepy sort of place, even with 319s whizzing by. The blokes who were expected to work that box must have been a special breed! That was then - not sure if it's there today, what with all the new works down there since, I doubt it.

[Mickey]

Hello hq1hitchin and everyone, i guess Richard won't mind me mentioning (i hope?) that on our old friend John Hinson's signal box site there has been some discussion lately and pictures of the interior of st Pancras tunnel s/box i think that there was a 7 lever frame?. Micky

[Pullman]

I must say that i had heard of the little signal box at the bottom of the spiral staircase before several years ago, i believe access was gained from street level via a 'man hole cover' if you can believe that!. Micky GNR/L.N.E.R.

After privatisation in 1997 I, along with loads of others, was made redundant but obtained some occasional work and did a couple of weeks for Thameslink as it was then, in early 1998. They gave me the job of organising a 'table top' exercise for some Brighton drivers which involved an imaginary incident in the tunnels under St Pancras, and the BTP were involved as well. One thing we tested was radio communication in the tunnel and I can well remember the West Hampstead MOM (Mobile Operations Manager), Bob Denton, turning up at Pancras with the key to the spiral staircase. Access was through a little steel door down in the corner of the cab road leading from the archway by the booking hall down into Midland Road. Going down the staircase can best be described as akin to climbing into a dirty chimney - a very narrow one at that. I think this is why it never featured in emergency plans as it would have been awkward, for instance, for firemen wearing breathing apparatus to use it, never mind poor Joe Public. Anyway, we went down and came out disorientated straight onto the lineside and there, in the gloom, was the remains of St Pancras Tunnel box - still with the glass windows and even the remains of an electric fan inside. The lever frame and block instruments had long gone, and we didn't hang about either as it was a creepy sort of place, even with 319s whizzing by. The blokes who were expected to work that box must have been a special breed! That was then - not sure if it's there today, what with all the new works down there since, I doubt it.

Hello Micky,

Here's an short article on the signal box you mentioned in your most interesting response to this thread. My apologies if I've previously posted this elsewhere.

Pullman

In the first stage of the new colour-light signalling scheme announced for St. Pancras Station, it is expected that one of the signalboxes to be abolished will be the tiny six-lever cabin in St. Pancras Tunnel. This is, perhaps, the most interesting of a class of box that is fast disappearing. These boxes are usually referred to as ΄block posts΄ or ΄passing boxes, ΄ and normally their sole function is merely that of shortening an otherwise long section. A dearth of signalmen and the high cost of labour is hastening an elimination process that already was well under way before the second world war.

St. Pancras Tunnel Signalbox is situated in the tunnel between Kings Cross ΄C΄ Box (L.T.E.) and St. Paul’s Road Passenger Junction Box. The latter has a 34-lever Midland tumbler-type frame, also to be abolished. In terms of stations, the Tunnel Box is between Kentish Town and Kings Cross (Widened Lines). The ventilating shaft to the box can be found in the carriageway on the west side of St. Pancras Station, and access to the box itself is gained by a deep spiral staircase in the same area.

Unless one is fortunate enough to be granted a permit to visit, there is little chance of seeing much of the box from the infrequent suburban trains that pass built as it is in a recess near ground level. The box probably is as old as the line, and has six levers in a Midland-type frame. Two of the levers are spare, however. At one time, the signals were of the mechanically wire-worked type, without an arm, but nowadays they are colour-lights, all repeated because of the curvature of the line. The aspects of the signals are also repeated over the levers in Metropolitan Railway-type repeaters.

There is a very small illuminated diagram, of comparatively recent installation, and this probably is unique in a four-lever block post. In the down direction (towards Kentish Town) the diagram extends just beyond the distant signal and in the up direction just beyond the junction to the Eastern Region line. Another unusual feature is that the box cannot be switched out. There are, of course, small block posts elsewhere that have no switch but they control special installations, such as level crossings. On the up line trains are belled without instruments to Kings Cross (L.T.E.) Box, instruments being unnecessary because the illuminated diagram in that box extends back to the Tunnel Box. Accordingly, the L. T. E. track circuits control the aspect of the up signals in the Tunnel Box. On both lines trains are signalled between St. Paul’s Passenger Junction and the Tunnel Box by Midland rotary block instruments.

Another rare feature is that when the home signals on either line are at danger, two detonators remain on the rails; they are removed when the lever is pulled. Furthermore, a klaxon horn is sounded in the tunnel when a train is approaching the home signals, for every safety precaution must be taken where smoke and steam are likely to obscure signals. Traffic nowadays is not heavy. Goods trains are restricted to 27 empty wagons in the down direction, and to 23 loaded wagons in the up direction, and therefore it is not considered economical to route freight and mineral traffic through the tunnel.

The restriction arises from the steep gradients between Kentish Town and Blackfriars; the gradient between St. Paul’s Passenger Junction and the Tunnel Box is 1 in 58. It is an interesting speculation to assess whether, with the advent of diesels, traffic, most of which is coal, will again be routed through the tunnel to any considerable extent. From all accounts, the Tunnel Box has had many interesting characters among its signalmen, and some have served in the box for a number of years. Perhaps in the absolute quiet of the tunnel, broken only by the sound of an occasional train, they have found respite from the noise of London at street level.

In conclusion, the writer would like to express his thanks to the British Transport Commission for granting facilities for a visit to the box, and also to Mr. W. G. Walton, Assistant to the District Operating Superintendent, who himself was a signalman in the tunnel many years ago.

From: An article by C. H. Betts in The Railway Magazine of May 1956