WIDENED LINES - 1970s

[StevieG]

" .... Up until the Moorgate accident ALL trains approaching a terminal station with buffer stops approached on a 'green aspect' but after the accident ALL trains approaching a terminal station with buffer stops approached on a SINGLE YELLOW ASPECT. Also there were other safeguards built into approaching terminal stations were by the loco/units train speed had to be checked so as to approach a 'dead end' at a SLOW SPEED. " ....

There were variations in some places to the old 'greens all the way to the buffer stop' arrangements. At KX for example ( KX, again!!! Yes; sorry. ) , drivers got greens into the long, main line platforms. But when signalled into any of the short platforms, whichever last main signal (between Gasworks Tunnel and the station) was involved, it displayed one yellow, to convey some sort of caution for running to the closer buffer stop than if going into plat.1, or 2, or 4-8, or 10.

Regarding the missing numbers in the main line platforms, some will know that '9', when it existed, was only ever a siding (the last of the once many of them under the main trainshed) between plat.lines 8 & 10 (island 7/8 was very narrow then). But Platform 3, until it went, in/around about 1934, was a short one, let ('indented') into the plat. 4 side of the northern part of island 2/4, with its buffer stop just north of the main passenger footbridge. (This meant that, although the platform 4 line was long, its actual platform was short, beginning only where 3 ended.).
But in the short-ish time between the 1932 resignalling with colour-light signals, and plat.3 being removed (and 4 made full length), No.3, being a shorter run to the buffers, was also entered from a signal showing yellow, not green.
For anyone who remembers the old KX signalling in detail, the Up Fast (15) and Up Relief (45/86) signals as you came out of Gasworks Tunnel, had three lenses to the end, but were only ever seen (since the '30s) showing red or green : It was because they used to also needed the centre yellow lens for when cleared for entering Plat.3.

Going back to semaphore equivalent arrangements, there were variations and oddities there also. Some termini's signal boxes had their 'arrival' Distant signals 'Fixed at Caution', while at others they could be worked (in effect, the semaphore equivalent of the 'greens all the way in' scenario).
One company, the 'Brighton' (LB&SCR) I think it was, had their last signals leading into the big terminus platforms equipped with stop arms with distant arms just below, and these were worked such that, both arms were pulled 'off' into a clear platform, but for signalling into a partly occupied platform, presumably instead of the more usual 'Calling-On' subsidiary signal being provided and used, the main stop arm was still pulled 'off'(!), but the lower distant was left 'on' (horizontal).

[Mickey]

Interesting reading there Stevie, your right about that L.B.& S.C. Rly practice of having a home & distant signal as the last signals on the approach to a terminal station, if both arms were showing 'off' then the route was clear all the way to the stops but if only the home signal was off but the distant signal was 'on' then the platform was partly occupied by a vehicle or vehicles before the stops. Funny that we have got onto Southern region signalling practices because i never really thought much of southern region signalling at all. What with them having some different bell codes to what was in use on the other regions and having to 'plunge' on the Sykes lock & block instruments to give a release to the other s/box and all that it seemed cumbersome to operate there signalling system and i wasn't really interested in at all. Also a lot of there signal boxes on the southern weren't all that much to look at as well!. When it comes to signalling the only companies signalling that interest me was/is broadly the L.N.E.R./L.M.S. & G.W.R. Micky GNR/L.N.E.R.

[Mickey]

Getting back to the widened lines i use to like that little LT s/box on the down platform at Kings Cross LT station tucked away behind the boundary/security fence just before the entrance to the tunnel. I remember first seeing that s/box way back in 1967 when i looked over the brick wall down some ally way and looked down onto the Metropolitan and widened lines that were in the open on a short section of line just before Kings Cross. Micky

[kudu]

A bit more background on the Widened Lines at Kings Cross, if anyone's interested:

The Met connection goes back to 1863, when the York Road platform was provided, but northbound trains had to reverse into the main station, which still had only 1 departure platform! From 1866 through passenger and coal trains began, using the new connection with the LCDR. And the Midland were still using KX as well!

Kings Cross Suburban station, originally for departures only, opened in 1875 on what was previously the carriage repair shop. A loco yard was built alongside, and then came the Met connection, still without a platform until 1878. This was a mixed blessing, because of the difficulties of restarting trains, as described above. In GN days a worker spent his day in the tunnel applying sand between trains. Part of the climb was 1 in 35 on a 154 yd radius, but in the absence of oxygen supplies for the second crew the loading gauge was too restricted for double-heading. However, this did make it easy for crews to check which way they were moving in the darkness, simply by reaching out and touching the wall. Whether the crew knew they were going the wrong way in 1932 before they hit the train behind I don't know. Lights were provided after that. By this time the Met curve had been "somewhat flattened" in the alterations of 1895, but I would guess the tunnel itself wasn't altered, only the platform.

A track/signal plan of 1905 has the KX platforms and tracks east-west as:
(Spaces show platform positions)

York Road platform (to Met)
South Spur

No1 arrive
No2 arrive

No 3 arrive (short)
No 4 arrive
No 5 arrive

No 2 depart
No 3 siding
Unnumbered siding
No 2 siding
No 1 siding
No 1 depart

Platform Line E
Platform Line D

Platform Line C
Loco Yard (4 sidings)
Suburban Line B (from Met)

Platform Line A
Siding

Siding


So Platform Line A corresponds to platform 17 in the above discussion.

An undated LNER track diagram shows the main line station with 8 main platforms, plus a short platform 3 as in 1905. One siding remains between the 7th and 8th platform lines (numbered 8 & 10). In the Suburban Station the loco yard has gone (shifted alongside the tunnel entrances) and there are now 5 platforms (11-15) before the Met line, as has been described in earlier postings. Beyond 16 is 1 more platform plus 4 short sidings and one, if not two, short platforms originally milk and horse and cattle docks. One of these sidings was a spur giving access to the repositioned loco yard.

(Sources: Alan Jackson "London's Termini" and "Kings Cross" in the Irwell Press "The Great British Railway Station" series.)

Kudu

[Pullman]

Some good reporting and reminscences here. Readers might be interested in the following underground signal-box. Not LNER related, but close by, and so in posting this I hope I won't incur the moderator's or other reader's wrath. I apologise in advance if this is so.

In the first stage of the new colour-light signalling scheme announced for St. Pancras Station, it is expected that one of the signalboxes to be abolished will be the tiny six-lever cabin in St. Pancras Tunnel. This is, perhaps, the most interesting of a class of box that is fast disappearing. These boxes are usually referred to as ΄block posts΄ or ΄passing boxes, ΄ and normally their sole function is merely that of shortening an otherwise long section. A dearth of signalmen and the high cost of labour is hastening an elimination process that already was well under way before the second world war.

St. Pancras Tunnel Signalbox is situated in the tunnel between Kings Cross ΄C΄ Box (L.T.E.) and St. Paul’s Road Passenger Junction Box. The latter has a 34-lever Midland tumbler-type frame, also to be abolished. In terms of stations, the Tunnel Box is between Kentish Town and Kings Cross (Widened Lines). The ventilating shaft to the box can be found in the carriageway on the west side of St. Pancras Station, and access to the box itself is gained by a deep spiral staircase in the same area.

Unless one is fortunate enough to be granted a permit to visit, there is little chance of seeing much of the box from the infrequent suburban trains that pass built as it is in a recess near ground level. The box probably is as old as the line, and has six levers in a Midland-type frame. Two of the levers are spare, however. At one time, the signals were of the mechanically wire-worked type, without an arm, but nowadays they are colour-lights, all repeated because of the curvature of the line. The aspects of the signals are also repeated over the levers in Metropolitan Railway-type repeaters.

There is a very small illuminated diagram, of comparatively recent installation, and this probably is unique in a four-lever block post. In the down direction (towards Kentish Town) the diagram extends just beyond the distant signal and in the up direction just beyond the junction to the Eastern Region line. Another unusual feature is that the box cannot be switched out. There are, of course, small block posts elsewhere that have no switch but they control special installations, such as level crossings. On the up line trains are belled without instruments to Kings Cross (L.T.E.) Box, instruments being unnecessary because the illuminated diagram in that box extends back to the Tunnel Box. Accordingly, the L. T. E. track circuits control the aspect of the up signals in the Tunnel Box. On both lines trains are signalled between St. Paul’s Passenger Junction and the Tunnel Box by Midland rotary block instruments.

Another rare feature is that when the home signals on either line are at danger, two detonators remain on the rails; they are removed when the lever is pulled. Furthermore, a klaxon horn is sounded in the tunnel when a train is approaching the home signals, for every safety precaution must be taken where smoke and steam are likely to obscure signals. Traffic nowadays is not heavy. Goods trains are restricted to 27 empty wagons in the down direction, and to 23 loaded wagons in the up direction, and therefore it is not considered economical to route freight and mineral traffic through the tunnel.

Pullman






The restriction arises from the steep gradients between Kentish Town and Blackfriars; the gradient between St. Paul’s Passenger Junction and the Tunnel Box is 1 in 58. It is an interesting speculation to assess whether, with the advent of diesels, traffic, most of which is coal, will again be routed through the tunnel to any considerable extent. From all accounts, the Tunnel Box has had many interesting characters among its signalmen, and some have served in the box for a number of years. Perhaps in the absolute quiet of the tunnel, broken only by the sound of an occasional train, they have found respite from the noise of London at street level.

In conclusion, the writer would like to express his thanks to the British Transport Commission for granting facilities for a visit to the box, and also to Mr. W. G. Walton, Assistant to the District Operating Superintendent, who himself was a signalman in the tunnel many years ago.

From: An article by C. H. Betts in The Railway Magazine of May 1956

[strang steel]

A bit more background on the Widened Lines at Kings Cross, if anyone's interested:

<snip>

Kudu

Yes, I am interested. Very much so, because as a teenage spotter in the 1960s I never really understood all the complexities of day to day operation in the KX area, and was really just there to see locomotives that I could underline in my ABC.

These reminiscences give a great insight into how it must have been to work there on a daily basis. Thanks very much for sharing them.

John

[manna]

G'Day Gents
I'm enjoying this, there's a lot that I did'nt know.

I once heard a story that a Midland train was directed up Hotel curve, by mistake, but I don't know what happened after that!!

The other thing that use to happen but not many people talk about is the Tube stock and Battery locos popping up at Kings Cross, look so strange amongst the normal mainline stock

And when was Platform 17 last used by a passenger train???? 1930....1940....1950??
manna

[Mickey]

I must say that i had heard of the little signal box at the bottom of the spiral staircase before several years ago, i believe access was gained from street level via a 'man hole cover' if you can believe that!. Also yes i also heard the story of a Midland goods train taking the 'wrong road' up (down line) the steep gradient of the Hotel curve towards the GNR. I am not sure if the Midland goods was 'set back' and re-routed?. Micky GNR/L.N.E.R.

[Flamingo]

I'm almost ashamed to admit this, having watched trains at Kings Cross from about 1948 onwards until I moved away from London, but until this thread started I didn't even realise there was a Platform 17. I caught trains out of no. 16 many times but never looked what was 'round the back'. Certainly I never saw anything except a light engine in that vicinity. I did once take my car on the motor rail train and if no. 17 was where the cars were loaded on to the vans then I have been on no. 17.

[kudu]

I'm almost ashamed to admit this, having watched trains at Kings Cross from about 1948 onwards until I moved away from London, but until this thread started I didn't even realise there was a Platform 17. I caught trains out of no. 16 many times but never looked what was 'round the back'. Certainly I never saw anything except a light engine in that vicinity. I did once take my car on the motor rail train and if no. 17 was where the cars were loaded on to the vans then I have been on no. 17.

I'm pretty sure 17 was a conventional platform. Cars would have been loaded beyond 17 in the milk bay area. (I think - my memory may be letting me down.) The light engines you saw would have been moving to or from the servicing area.

Kudu

[Mickey]

The loco usually a Brush type-2 (class 31) that was on No1 shunt diagram usually 'stood around the back of the milk dock' or if not standing there would stand either on the 'north spur' by the mouth of Gas Works tunnel or on the 'dead end' just off of the arrivals platforms near York road station when not working. A onetime secondman at Kings Cross in 1974/75. Micky

[Flamingo]

I'm almost ashamed to admit this, having watched trains at Kings Cross from about 1948 onwards until I moved away from London, but until this thread started I didn't even realise there was a Platform 17. I caught trains out of no. 16 many times but never looked what was 'round the back'. Certainly I never saw anything except a light engine in that vicinity. I did once take my car on the motor rail train and if no. 17 was where the cars were loaded on to the vans then I have been on no. 17.

I'm pretty sure 17 was a conventional platform. Cars would have been loaded beyond 17 in the milk bay area. (I think - my memory may be letting me down.) The light engines you saw would have been moving to or from the servicing area.

Kudu

Thanks for that. I see we had a thread about KX & the Widened Lines about 2 years ago, and I found this gem of a quote from the esteemed Hitchin:

Yes, Flamingo and it seems that, one day, a signalman wrongly routed a LMR train hauled by one of those useless Fowler 3P tanks onto the GN towards Hotel Curve and the driver took the signal. Seems he then stalled and both he and his fireman were being overcome by the smoky conditions when one Stushy Goddard donned some primitive type of b.a apparatus they had in those days and went down and rescued them.

At least, that's what he told us, but then he told us young hands a lot of things......

[hq1hitchin]

I'm almost ashamed to admit this, having watched trains at Kings Cross from about 1948 onwards until I moved away from London, but until this thread started I didn't even realise there was a Platform 17. I caught trains out of no. 16 many times but never looked what was 'round the back'. Certainly I never saw anything except a light engine in that vicinity. I did once take my car on the motor rail train and if no. 17 was where the cars were loaded on to the vans then I have been on no. 17.

I'm pretty sure 17 was a conventional platform. Cars would have been loaded beyond 17 in the milk bay area. (I think - my memory may be letting me down.) The light engines you saw would have been moving to or from the servicing area.

Kudu

Thanks for that. I see we had a thread about KX & the Widened Lines about 2 years ago, and I found this gem of a quote from the esteemed Hitchin:

Yes, Flamingo and it seems that, one day, a signalman wrongly routed a LMR train hauled by one of those useless Fowler 3P tanks onto the GN towards Hotel Curve and the driver took the signal. Seems he then stalled and both he and his fireman were being overcome by the smoky conditions when one Stushy Goddard donned some primitive type of b.a apparatus they had in those days and went down and rescued them.

At least, that's what he told us, but then he told us young hands a lot of things......

Thanks for that, Flamingo, you are too kind!. Stushy was the main line engine controller on my shift in KX Control. He was Arthur Taylor's (of 2509 fame - September 1935) son in law and a fund of tales from his footplate days and was, if I recall rightly, acting as some sort of outdoor foreman when the unexpected visitor arrived off the Midland on Hotel Curve; he recieved a commendation for his actions. Poor old Stushy, he had a fatal heart attack one day on KX suburban station.

Platform 17 was of wooden construction, if I recall rightly and reached by a little flight of steps up from Plat 16. Motor cars were dealt with out in the Milk Dock

[Dave Cockle]

Slightly off tpoic but does any one remember "The Local" cafe/bar on the suburban station concourse?. The place used to smell of tabaco smoke and damp raincoats. The windows were nearly always dripping with condensation and the decor was mainly formed of formica and plastic surfaces. Rather cramped and limited range of drinks. I used to buy a coffee sometimes but would drink it out on the platforms as the air was usually thick with cigarette smoke inside the local.

[Flamingo]

I remember the bar, but did going outside make the coffee taste any better though? I have my doubts about that.