coachmann wrote:I wrote up the story of those GCR 12-wheel push pull driving trailers (and ex-Steam Railmotor stock) in my Delph-Oldham book, as they came up to Oldham from Guide Bridge. I have a shot of a 12-wheeler in Sheffield in the middle of a rake of Mk. I coaches! It carries BR Gill Sans numerals but it is impossible to make out if it has been repainted in BR carmine red or simply revarnished brown.
Would that be...
Scenes from the past 49: Delph to Oldham, including Lees MPD, Motor Trains and the O.A & G.B to Ashton
by L Goddard & J Wells
ISBN 1870119827
Methinks I'm of to the Book shop in Manchester next week.
I have a very understanding better half...
Many thanks for adding your notes on the Manchester Suburbans.
Can I ask a couple of questions?
Were sets 262 and 264 the Manchester Central- Guide Bridge sets?
262 certainly was in earlier years. If so the presence of what appear to be Thompson stock in those two sets is interesting (the BC and CL) as the CL at least would have replaced GC 50’ stock. The CL was previously a C(2-5) and at some point I am told the BC was a BC(2-2).
If anyone can suggest what the BC(2-2) was I’d be interested to hear as other than a Scottish Gresley non-corridor (unlikely?) the only candidate I can think of would be a GC 50’ clerestory BCL. If this was the case why would the L be omitted from the carriage working book?
I have a photo of a Guide Bridge service ca. 1954 where the T(9) is a Gresley vehicle. You note that all the nine compartment thirds would be GC, could this have been a CLC carriage added at Cornbrook as a replacement?
Many thanks for adding your notes on the Manchester Suburbans.
Can I ask a couple of questions?
Were sets 262 and 264 the Manchester Central- Guide Bridge sets?
Yes
262 certainly was in earlier years. If so the presence of what appear to be Thompson stock in those two sets is interesting (the BC and CL) as the CL at least would have replaced GC 50’ stock. The CL was previously a C(2-5) and at some point I am told the BC was a BC(2-2).
In 1947 there was a set 252A which was made up of a BCL(2-2) + T(8). This worked two trips Glossop - Dinting then back to Glossop between 9:23am and 10:26am while the main set was working between Glossop and London Rd. I suspect that both these vehicles were GC 50' stock
I have a photo of a Guide Bridge service ca. 1954 where the T(9) is a Gresley vehicle. You note that all the nine compartment thirds would be GC, could this have been a CLC carriage added at Cornbrook as a replacement?
More likely to be a LNER D.56. These were built 1924 to as a continuation of the last GC sets but were given Gresley exterior detailing. The diagram in Harris is wrong in that it shows 10 compartments while photos show only 9. There were also 60' firsts to D.46 and 56' BT(6) to D.59
I'd overlooked the D.58 thirds because of the error in the Harris book. Thanks for pointing that out.
Regarding the BCL(2-2), all I need to do now is find out which of them was still in service in 1950. 1663 on the GCR(N) certainly wasn't as it was withdrawn in 1948.
I have the Foxline book 'Manchester London Road to Hayfield' and near the back of the book are pictures of coaches in Hayfield station. Whilst most are identifyably Gresley non-corridor, BR.MkI non-corridor and GCR non-corridor matchboard stock, there are some high eliptical roof coaches with full waist panelling etc that simply do not look GCR.
Looking at coaches in the Great Central book, there are early arc roof stock, clerestory roof stock, low-eliptical roof stock and high eliptical roof matchboard stock. But I have never come across GCR high eliptical roof coaches with raised panelling. I think the coaches at Hayfield are North Eastern Railway origin. Can anyone else assist here please?
There seem to have been a few of these 8-compartment North Eastern Coaches in the Manchester sets of the early 1950s. One or two appear in the Hayfield etc trains towards the front of the book you refer to as well if memory serves. I looked into this a while back when I was researching the Fallowfield Loop services. I don’t have either the Hayfield book or my notes on me at the moment, but a quick look on the Vintage Carriage Trust carriage survey makes me think that at least some of these coaches were Diagram 178 Thirds.
I have read somewhere that some NER carriages eneded up around Manchester in their later days but can I remember where?
Please don't take this as read but did some end up on the auld CLC lines?
If I can dig this out I will - wibble!
coachmann wrote:I have the Foxline book 'Manchester London Road to Hayfield' and near the back of the book are pictures of coaches in Hayfield station. Whilst most are identifyably Gresley non-corridor, BR.MkI non-corridor and GCR non-corridor matchboard stock, there are some high eliptical roof coaches with full waist panelling etc that simply do not look GCR.
They could be NER or CLC. The distinguishing feature is that NER coaches had no beading below the waist panels while the CLC ones had beading at the ends and bottom of the lower side panels.
Thanks very much Iak, Bill and Simon for your information. I felt quite sure they were NER coaches after seeing the pictures on friend John Fozards website a few weeks ago, but it is good to have the backup of knowledgeable people on this website to prevent me making a right cock-up! So a JF 8-compartment D178 it is then (just so long as the droplights are etched into the sides)....Order placed!
Another good book with several pictures of local London Road trains is Johnson's Woodhead Part 1, also Foxline. It appears that the clerestory was still in service in a two coach push-pull set in 1954.
Presumably by "brown" you mean teak paint with BR numbers added and possibly re-varnished?
Do you happen to know whether they received much attention in BR days. I ask only because these vehicles seem to look so different from one photograph to the next. Many views suggest teak paint which looks quite light in colour with minimum gloss whereas there are several photos of a push pull set on an RCTS special at Winsford in 1953ish where the clerestory trailer looks a lot darker and perhaps glossier. It might of course just have been the lighting conditions.
I had another look for NER coaches in the Manchester area. There are a couple of nice views of them in Railways around Manchester by Gilbert and Knight. It looks like you could even justify a NER brake third complete with the full depth 'duckets' if you were so inclined judging by a photo in one of the Foxline books.
Incidentally why do you need a GC suburban set for Greenfield (other than that it makes for a lovely collection of coaches)?
