Hertford East-Ware crossing in the 1960s & 70s

[Mickey]

Any forum member's have any stories or pictures concerning the Hertford East branch especially the Ware to Hertford East end of the branch. The earliest date that i can vaguely remember being at Ware station was around 1964 (i was seven years old) but the next visit i made wasn't until about 1967. From around 1967 onwards i remember seeing the 'fairly large' goods depot around the back of Ware station on a number of separate occasions until about 1971 and which had about 6 or 8 roads?. The signalling at Ware and at Hertford East (as well as the rest of the branch from Broxbourne Junction) was colour light signals of the 'search light' type but at both locations there was still a number of L.N.E.R. disc signals four (possibly five?) that i can remember being at Ware in the 1960s and several others at Hertford East as well, also i can remember a semaphore stop signal on a small white wooden signal post coming out of a 'back road' at Hertford East station sometime up to around 1969/70? but was abolished soon after that date. Hertford East s/box was painted in GER colours of cream and lined out in green and looked an interesting little s/box to work. There was also a freight train (i think it may have been a cement train?) that use to maybe run once or twice a week from Hertford East but stopped running sometime during either the 1970s or 1980s?. All in all an interesting GER branch line. Micky LNER all the way...

[Dave Cockle]

Any forum member's have any stories or pictures concerning the Hertford East branch especially the Ware to Hertford East end of the branch. The earliest date that i can vaguely remember being at Ware station was around 1964 (i was seven years old) but the next visit i made wasn't until about 1967. From around 1967 onwards i remember seeing the 'fairly large' goods depot around the back of Ware station on a number of separate occasions until about 1971 and which had about 6 or 8 roads?. The signalling at Ware and at Hertford East (as well as the rest of the branch from Broxbourne Junction) was colour light signals of the 'search light' type but at both locations there was still a number of L.N.E.R. disc signals four (possibly five?) that i can remember being at Ware in the 1960s and several others at Hertford East as well, also i can remember a semaphore stop signal on a small white wooden signal post coming out of a 'back road' at Hertford East station sometime up to around 1969/70? but was abolished soon after that date. Hertford East s/box was painted in GER colours of cream and lined out in green and looked an interesting little s/box to work. There was also a freight train (i think it may have been a cement train?) that use to maybe run once or twice a week from Hertford East but stopped running sometime during either the 1970s or 1980s?. All in all an interesting GER branch line. Micky LNER all the way...

Micky, the occasional freight train down the Hertford East branch as against the daily via from Temple Mills Yard was a seasonal train (summer months) of Bitumen tanks from Fawley. This used to be worked by a Class 33 or Electro Diesel.

Dave Cockle

[Mickey]

Hello Dave, yes you are correct that the freight train was for Fawley on the Southern region and that the train was worked by a Southern class 33 (before we knew them as class 33s) i remember seeing that freight train on several occasions around 1969/70/71. There must have been other freight workings a long that branch because like i said there was a 'fair size' goods depot around the back of Ware station up to around 1970/71 i don't know what happened after those dates? (now days the former goods depot site has been built on for housing). Also i do vaguely remember seeing a train of what looked like loaded 'coal wagons' and a brake van sitting on one of the siding roads at the south end of Ware station sometime around 1967-68 or there abouts?. Micky L.N.E.R. all the way...

[StevieG]

I think that one surviving semaphore at Hertford East had been the home signal from the Hert.N. line, among several sidings after it had passed over Dicker Mill crossing, but I stand to be corrected : Not a location I know that much about.

[Mickey]

Yes like i said i remember seeing that 'lone full sized semaphore stop signal' the only one amongst all the search-light colour light signals and L.N.E.R. disc signals at Hertford East and Ware sometime around 1969/70 then it was gone!. An interesting bit of railway from a signalling point of view Hertford East-Ware-st Margarets s/boxes not so much after the 1970s or 80s though. Micky L.N.E.R. all the way...

[BHornsey]

Hi Micky.

That sole semaphore was the signal off the single line from Welwyn, HE45. When the single line closed, the line was truncated at Dicker Mill crossing to allow a headshunt for traffic into King's Mead and the semaphore was left in situ for moves back to the main line.

It was there when I was signalman at Hertford from 1979 but it was removed when the carriage sidings at Hertford & Enfield closed; about 1985ish, if I remember. All outstabling was then centred at Chingford and a new carriage washer facility was built there.

Brian

[Mickey]

Thanks for the infomation Brian. I didn't really go to Hertford East station much after about 1970 (because i was living in Welwyn Garden City during the whole of the 70s) i actually saw abit more of Ware crossing s/box because my brother and his family use to live in Ware from about 1964 onwards. I always thought that lone semaphore stop signal (no.45) went earlier around 1970 but obviously i was mistaken. Believe it or not i actually applied for a vacant signalman's post at Hertford East s/box when it was advertised on the BR(E) regional vacancy list around about the summer of 1974 (or was it 1975?) but at that moment in time i was a secondman at Kings Cross (between April 1974-Oct 1975) and received a letter back saying that 'The signalman's position at Hertford East ISN'T in your line of promotion so therefor your application is void!'. Thats how it was in BR days. Still like i said before Hertford East-Ware-st Margarets was an interesting bit of railway back in the 60s & 70s. Micky L.N.E.R. all the way...

[Mr Bunt]

From around 1967 onwards i remember seeing the 'fairly large' goods depot around the back of Ware station on a number of separate occasions until about 1971 and which had about 6 or 8 roads?. ...There was also a freight train (i think it may have been a cement train?) that use to maybe run once or twice a week from Hertford East but stopped running sometime during either the 1970s or 1980s?. All in all an interesting GER branch line. Micky LNER all the way...

The goods depot has now been turned into flats after a protracted battle with East Herts District Council because it was a Grade II listed building by virtue of being one of the oldest railway specific buildings in the area.

The goods working I remember was to and from the Costain's works between Rye House and Broxbourne where they made concrete sleepers for BR and had a private siding. The train had to carry on to Hertford East on its Down run in order for the loco to run round the train. I think its ultimate destination was the Civil Engineer's yard at Leyton, where the new sleepers were unloaded. It probably ran until the early 1990s (at least the siding and Hertford East release road were still in situ then).

[Mickey]

I bought the Middleton Press book last week on the lines around Hertford which features the Buntingford branch the Hertford East-Broxbourne station branch also the Hatfield-Welwyn Garden City-Hertford North-Hertford East branch as well as the Hatfield-st Albans branch. Anyway, amongst other things there was a good black & white interior picture of Ware crossing s/box (the 1960 structure) which had a 20 lever frame and because it worked TCB with both Hertford East s/box on one side and st Margarets s/box on the other side only had 2-block bells at either end of the block shelf (no block insturments) with several signal light repeaters on the shelf as well. The track diagram extended the full length of the block shelf which was the same length as the 20 lever frame. Also the extended roof that went around the s/box acted as a 'sunshade'. Micky

[BHornsey]

The goods workings were staring to run down when I worked the branch. Originally, it ran at dinner time and ran round at St Margarets and served Austen's and Costains. However, it caused problems if there was any late running as there was much of a gap between the up & down trains there and delays would occur. After Austen's closed, Costains got much busier. The train ran to Hertford to run round but was often too long and had to do it at St Margarets. This eventually caused us to run it on nights for a while. At one point it was quite a lengthy train; I seem to remember it running to a destination on the southern for a while.

The pictures in the Middleton Press book are rather good. The Ware box view is credited to a former box lad of mine and was taken just after I left the area to go to Colchester.

Brian

[Mickey]

Good one Brian, i can remember trying to get up into Ware s/box when i was a teenager back in 1970 to have a look around but unless the signalman saw me and called me up the box (it did happen to me on several occasions-st Albans south, Kensington south main, Broad street No2 all in 1970) then i wouldn't have had the nerve to walk up the stairs and knock on the door. Hertford East & Ware s/boxes were nice little jobs i did mention before that i actually applied for a position at Hertford East in either the summer of 1974 or 75 i can't remember there was a vacancy advertised on the Eastern region vacancy list at the time which but because at that time i was a secondman at Kings Cross i received a letter back saying that it wasn't in my line of promotion which it wasn't under BR. Micky

[Mr Bunt]

I bought the Middleton Press book last week on the lines around Hertford which features the Buntingford branch the Hertford East-Broxbourne station branch also the Hatfield-Welwyn Garden City-Hertford North-Hertford East branch as well as the Hatfield-st Albans branch.

Ahh... the Buntingford line. The Hertford East branch might have looked rather casual, but was a pretty tight ship when compared with "The Bunt". The signalman at Hadham used to leave the box key under the doormat at the top of the staircase so the crew of the morning paper train could work themselves through and he could get a little extra time in bed and get paid for it too

I believe something similar used to happen at Standon as well. Braughing (pronounce it "Bruffing" and you'll sound like a local) was also run in a rather slap happy way; "Bubby", the regular signalman, would leave goods train crews to do their own shunting while he took afternoon tea with the stationmaster and often found they'd tied the frame up with a bit of rope and complicated knots when he got back to the box

[Mickey]

Ah the Buntingford branch Mr Bunt. The only thing i can recall about the Buntingford branch was when i was a youngster i can just about remember visting West Mill (a small village) on about three separate occasions around 1965/66 when i would have been about 9 years old with my mum & dad. The only memory i can just about recall is of a single line and a level crossing at West Mill and thats about it. Micky L.N.E.R.

[Mr Bunt]

Any forum member's have any stories or pictures concerning the Hertford East branch especially the Ware to Hertford East end of the branch.

Is this photo of Ware taken earlier this year any good to you? The former goods depot is the big building in the background where Station Road turns sharply left and the view is taken from the footbridge.

[manna]

G'Day Gents


'IT'S SINGLE LINE'...........Tight B's and judging by the closeness of the buildings it's always been single line
manna