Sandy s/box.

[Mickey]

On passing Sandy s/box (The GNR s/box not the LNWR s/box) on a passing train in either direction back in 1970 if one looked up at the s/box for a few seconds on passing one could see at the start of the lever frame the end where the signalman would walk in through the box door (which was situated at the north end of the box) where the 'low numbers' would begin there appeared to be two levers mounted quite high up higher than the rest of the levers in the frame. Someone told me years ago back in the 1980s that those two levers were for working 'wire worked points' instead of the points being worked by the normal point rodding. I was just wondering if that was the case because i've never heard of any other wire worked points between Sandy and Kings Cross?. Also while i'm talking about Sandy i did infact pay a visit to Sandy station one Sunday for about 8hrs! (because the next stopping train heading south towards Hitchin and London wasn't until approximately 18:00hrs back in 1970) so it gave me 'plenty' of time to hang around the station waiting for the train home, anyway sitting on the end of the up GNR platform/down LNWR platform was the 'closed & redundent' Sandy LNWR s/box with the door left wide open!. The stirrup lever frame was clearly seen from the up GNR platform (the s/box was quite low down only seven or eight steps from the platform into the box) aswell as the block shelf minus the block instruments and with various other things like TRBs (Train registers) and other forms scattered around the s/box floor!. Micky "Great days never to be repeated..."

[R. pike]

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p60246851.html

Points A & B were wire worked but could be locked by an ordinary rod worked facing point lock (despite being trailing)...

[Mickey]

Right so they were wire worked points then, have you got any pictures of the Sandy lever frame because those two levers what one could see of them from a passing train looked pretty unusual looking. Micky riding the GN rails...

[R. pike]

I'm afraid i don't have any pictures of the levers at Sandy. I was 10 years old when the box closed though i did cycle out from Hitchin one Saturday and had a quick peek in the derilict box.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[hq1hitchin]

About the time of the closure of most of the mechanical boxes, the Chief District Inspector, Kings X, took a chap called Howard Turner (?) around the southern end of the GN and he, on behalf of the NRM, decided what they wanted to claim for the national collection. I can clearly remember that those wire worked points, A&B, were on his list so presumably they are now somewhere in York. I know this because it was my job that day to act as the advance guard and make sure all was in order before those dignitaries actually entered the boxes concerned. Straight up working only - please!!

[Mickey]

Deleted

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Always thought that the service (all stations) between Hitchin & Peterborough was dismal, often wondered if they were on Beechings hit list?
manna

[StevieG]

Those A & B levers worked the two sets of points from the Down Sidings ending in the trailing connection with the Down Main at the south end of the down platform, and, as RP mentioned, three of the four ends had a conventional Facing Point Lock, all worked from one ordinary lever in the frame (No. 13 if memory serves).

A & B was a 2-lever frame, apparently of Westinghouse type, though they weren't the only manufacturer of this type of lever, I think I recall someone working out that, in conjunction with South taking over the functions of North boxes (sited about halfway along the down platform), they were probably installed about 1924, and we conjectured that their use may have been some sort of LNER trial, as those points weren't beyond the then 350-yards limit for mechanical rod-operated points.
Although not unknown in the UK, wire-operated points were pretty rare here [I know there was one box with a complete frame of similar levers: I think it was Barrow Hill Sidings (ex-MR?) ], though such points [and signals, this system for both being more usually known as 'double-wire' operated: Worked using a sort of wire loop arrangement in a push-pull manner, instead of rigid rodding; or single wires (with return by weights/gravity) ], this was apparently quite common in Europe. (If I remember rightly, in the Burt Lancaster B&W film "The Train", there are internal shots of such a frame in an elevated Box in a big yard, during an Allied bombing raid.)

'Tattersall' (a 1940s S&T-ish text book, called "Railway Signalling & Communications"), contains info. about the double-wire system, including that it was capable of working points up to about 800 yards distant (which, if it had been so utilised at Sandy, would have meant that such levers could have worked the old North box's Down Main-Down Slow, and Up Goods-UM points, which were actually made electrically motor-worked when South took them over ; - another clue that perhaps using the A&B levers, but for the much nearer points from the sidings, was only a trial.)

[52D]

Stevie for your info check out you tube there are a lot of snippets from the aforementioned train movie.

[2512silverfox]

Going back to hq1's posting, the chap you mentioned was John Howard-Turner who was one of the original members of the HMRS and a signal engineer by profession. He was given the task of overseeing the signal side of the NRM when it opened in 1975 and I have no doubt that there are still quite a few artefacts in the vaults which have yet to see the light of day.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[hq1hitchin]

the box at Letchworth

Was always very wary of 'having a go' on the lever frame there as it was 'free block' - right up until closure, I think - and this meant that the starting signal controlling the entrance to the block section ahead could be pulled off without the signalman at Letchworth obtaining 'line clear' on the block indicator from the box in advance. Doubt there is any passenger line without a 'line clear release' today?

[R. pike]

I think Letchworth became locked by the block before closure.

[hq1hitchin]

I think Letchworth became locked by the block before closure.

Thanks, Mr P - I take it that would not be a big job to do?