Ashburton Grove s/box in 1971

[Mickey]

In the summer of 1971 a friend and myself payed a visit to Ashburton Grove s/box which was situated to the south of Finsbury Park just below the bridge carrying the GN main line over the top going in and out of Kings Cross. Ashburton Grove s/box stood next to the down Cannonbury line and between the up & down goods lines to & from Finsbury Park No1 s/box going towards Finsbury Park No2 s/box. A line branched off at Ashburton Grove nearly outside the box going up a stiff gradient towards the former Holloway north up s/box which had already been closed in August 1969 called the 'Creep up' for obvious reasons. I'm sure that the only traffic that used this line on that sort of gradient was light engines coming out of Finsbury Park diesel depot bound for Kings Cross or the Kings Cross goods yard or 'trip freights' heading again towards Kings Cross goods yard. Ashburton Grove was a very small box with i think a 15 lever Dutton & Co lever frame there was also 'permissive block' working between Finsbury Park No1 s/box and Ashburton Grove over the up & down goods lines but Absolute block working between Ashburton Grove and Finsbury Park No2 s/box over the up & down goods lines. Joining the down goods line nearly outside the box was a connection from a siding with several roads in it and where the 'rubbish trains' originated from carrying some of London's rubbish to a land fill site at Blackbridge sidings beyond Welwyn Garden City on the old Hatfield - Luton branch line. The signalman on duty in the box was an Indian gentleman who told us that before being at Ashburton Grove he had been at Palmers Green s/box for several years before making us a nice mug of tea for the both of us. My friend took several colour photographs which came out really well of the lever frame, track diagram and block shelf and also a couple outside of the box aswell. All in all a good afternoons work, i think Ashburton Grove s/box closed sometime around the summer of 1974 and was demolished soon afterwards the site now being right near the new Arsenal FC stadium. Micky

[StevieG]

Dead right about Ashburton's 15-lever Dutton frame.
Did you also notice the rare survivor of a GNR box diagram, still bearing the 'Dutton & Co., Worcester's box supplier/equipper's name ? I'm pretty sure it remained until the box was being phased out.
There must have been only minor, if any, changes over all those years.

To clarify a little, who worked what in that immediate area ; there were four roads under the main line there, at/near Ashburton (AB) box, (unusually, all carrying traffic in a right-hand running manner through the bridge (No.12) :
North to South, they were;-
- Down Canonbury Passenger (Block section Finsbury Park No.1 (FK) to No.3 (EO));
- Up Canonbury Goods (Section FP No.2 (FD) to FP No.1);
- Down Canonbury Goods (FP No.1 - Ashburton - No.2);
- and Up Carriage ('Creep-up') (No.2 - Ashburton - Hollway North Up).

There was also a run-round loop, 'in section' on the 'Creep-up's gradient, using 1-way sprung trailing handpoints, so it must at some time have been permitted for trains to propel past Ashburton box onto the 'Creep-up's steep up-hill part, and then run-round in-section, before hauling forward to HNU box, and away.

[Mickey]

Yes Stevie, your dead right about the original GNR track diagram it was there above the block shelf on that visit to the box in the summer of 1971 and probably was there right up to the end when the box closed in the summer of 1974, i wonder who's got that now possibly the NRM at York?. That visit to Ashburton Grove s/box was 39 years ago this summer on a nice sunny warm afternoon, going up the box and having alook around for an hour that afternoon was nice... Micky

[Dave Cockle]

Yes Stevie, your dead right about the original GNR track diagram it was there above the block shelf on that visit to the box in the summer of 1971 and probably was there right up to the end when the box closed in the summer of 1974, i wonder who's got that now possibly the NRM at York?. That visit to Ashburton Grove s/box was 39 years ago this summer on a nice sunny warm afternoon, going up the box and having alook around for an hour that afternoon was nice... Micky

I was box lad at Finsbury Park No 3 1969/70 and remember seeing sets of empty coaches Ex Holloway Carriage Sidings drop down the bank round the back of Western Sidings towards Finsbury Park No 3 then propel the stock back via the Up Carriage Line onto the Creep Up where the loco would run round prior toi working the empty stock up to Kings Cross. In the W.T.T. empty stock routed this way would be
detailed "via Low Level". This manouevre mainy took place during the peak periods when it wouldn have been difficult to find a path across the "high level" crossing from Holloway North Down to Holloway North Up (latterly South Up).

I have a train register book from Finsbury Park No 3 for 1970 and was surprised not to find these "via Low Level" moves booked in No 3's TRB. We used to have Kings Cross Goods - Temple Mills freight trips belled forwards from Finsbury Park No2 on DGL 1 to run round with the loco being sent back up on DGL 2. These moves were booked in the TRB. I believe that officialy the ECS moves "via Low Level" should have been belled on as "Shunting into forward section but as I said there is no record of this in the TRB so I guess there must have been a degree of slack working.

Dave Cockle

[Dave Cockle]

Yes Stevie, your dead right about the original GNR track diagram it was there above the block shelf on that visit to the box in the summer of 1971 and probably was there right up to the end when the box closed in the summer of 1974, i wonder who's got that now possibly the NRM at York?. That visit to Ashburton Grove s/box was 39 years ago this summer on a nice sunny warm afternoon, going up the box and having alook around for an hour that afternoon was nice... Micky

I was box lad at Finsbury Park No 3 1969/70 and remember seeing sets of empty coaches Ex Holloway Carriage Sidings drop down the bank round the back of Western Sidings towards Finsbury Park No 3 then propel the stock back via the Up Carriage Line onto the Creep Up where the loco would run round prior toi working the empty stock up to Kings Cross. In the W.T.T. empty stock routed this way would be
detailed "via Low Level". This manouevre mainy took place during the peak periods when it wouldn have been difficult to find a path across the "high level" crossing from Holloway North Down to Holloway North Up (latterly South Up).

I have a train register book from Finsbury Park No 3 for 1970 and was surprised not to find these "via Low Level" moves booked in No 3's TRB. We used to have Kings Cross Goods - Temple Mills freight trips belled forwards from Finsbury Park No2 on DGL 1 to run round with the loco being sent back up on DGL 2. These moves were booked in the TRB. I believe that officialy the ECS moves "via Low Level" should have been belled on as "Shunting into forward section but as I said there is no record of this in the TRB so I guess there must have been a degree of slack working.

Dave Cockle

By the way Micky. The Ashburton Grove signalman who you met and was originally at Palmers Green was Clem ...? (Can't remember his second name. He was an Anglo Indian and used to be a P'way Inspector on Indian Railways. He was an extremely polite and pleasant individual and always made visitors welcome. I once paid him a visit as an unauthorised visitor to Palmers Green signalbox.

Dave Cockle

[Mickey]

Hello Dave, some nice info from you about some of the train workings between Finsbury Park No2 & No3 s/boxes. There use to be a 'morning goods' out of the goods yard about 10:00hrs bound for Temple Mills that use to run/round between Finsbury Park No2 & Finsbury Park No3 boxes then make it's way past Ashburton Grove to Finsbury Park No1 then forward off up the Cannonbury lines towards the London Midland region at Cannonbury Junction where it joined the North London line and then on towards Temple Mills yards before returning with the back working a couple of hours later. Around 1971 there was a young fella from my old school in Welwyn Garden City who became a 'telegraph lad' at Finsbury Park No6 s/box but about a year later he went across to Finsbury Park No3 as the 'tele lad' there but i've for gotten his name it may have been Alex or something like that he was a ok sort of fella. He eventually transferred on to the 'loco' at Kings Cross as a secondman and i think by the late 70s he was a driver at Kings Cross. The signalman at Ashburton Grove that afternoon yes was called Clem i remember him telling us his name now you mention it, yes he was a very nice fella indeed he made myself and my friend feel 'very welcome' in the box with him. Good memories & good times... Micky

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Well remember the 'creep' worked up there many hundreds of times, Oh, so easy to run up there light engine, but when you came back from Temple Mills with a couple of hundred tons on,after running round next to Western sidings on a damp day you would have to start sanding the moment you moved and would keep sanding all the way up the 'creep', because of it's position, you could'nt get a run up, and a speed restriction at the bottom (was it 10mph) the up the bank at 1 in 40, or something very close, the engine (usually a Cl 31) would be squeeling, banging and roaring along all at once, and struggling to get to 10mph, one of the best bits of railway around KX, is it still there???
manna

[Mickey]

I havan't really been around one of my 'old haunts' the Finsbury Park/Holloway area since the early/mid '70s but i doubt if the old 'creep up' is still there, infact there's hardly any railway left to talk about at all?. Four roads coming up the Holloway bank and thats it till you get to Finsbury Park!. The 'illustrious' new Arsenal FC stadium backs right up to the old GN main line now!. Good help us all!. Micky

[StevieG]

Although the Creep-Up made it into the Power Box signalling age, I should think it went about 20-25 years ago, possibly when Finsbury Park Diesel Depot was closed, = no more need for quick light engine moves from there to KX via the creep-up.
The undergrowth has set well in along the main line since then. Passing by on the train you can only just about make out where i he Creep-up rose up and reached the main line's level if you know where to look.

'Only four roads up Holloway bank and that's it to Fins.Park.'
Well, a bit of an over-simplification, Micky.

There's still also an Up Goods as far(-ish) as the area of the former Hornsey Road Bridge Sidings' north end, where it trails into the Up Slow.

There's a Down Goods that turns off the Down Slow immediately north of the Hornsey Road underbridge at Holloway, and which then runs downhill to where Fins.Park No.2 was, so that the Down Canonbury, coming under the main line [with the Down Moorgate (Northern City line) also in parallel], can have a connection with it, although also continuing in parallel with the DG and D.M'gate, as all three rise again to the area of Fins.Park No.3, from where there are then in total, four Down roads through the station area [DF, DS, D.M'gate, and (still no platform) Down Goods].

[Mickey]

Point taken Stevie about 'only four roads' coming up the Holloway bank and thats it as far as Finsbury Park. When one remembers like i'm sure you do how it use to be around that area back in the late 60s/early 70s it feels that way!. Micky

[StevieG]

Point taken Stevie about 'only four roads' coming up the Holloway bank and thats it as far as Finsbury Park. When one remembers like i'm sure you do how it use to be around that area back in the late 60s/early 70s it feels that way!. Micky

Oh yes. I know what you mean, right enough.
There certainly are only four roads up at and along the main line level for about 1/4-mile north from the top of Holloway bank.

[Andy W]

I left the GN for the Oak in 1987 and the creep-up had gone by then. I think it survived the closure of Finsbury Park in October 1983 but I'm not absolutely sure and even then it wouldn't have been by much.

I travelled back from FP to the Cross many a time in 1979-82 by LE going via the creep-up. Always dank, it was a real struggle for the loco to keep it's feet at the bottom and it seemed to take an age to get up top.

[Dave Cockle]

I left the GN for the Oak in 1987 and the creep-up had gone by then. I think it survived the closure of Finsbury Park in October 1983 but I'm not absolutely sure and even then it wouldn't have been by much.

I travelled back from FP to the Cross many a time in 1979-82 by LE going via the creep-up. Always dank, it was a real struggle for the loco to keep it's feet at the bottom and it seemed to take an age to get up top.

I was Area Inspector, based at Hitchin from Feb 1986 to Jun 1987 and one of the Sunday jobs I had in the early part of 1987 was booked on as "Operations Departmnet Supervisor" (O.D.S.) at the site of Ashburton Grove. The job was to ensure the safe working of a crane, attached to a Class 08 Shunting loco, which was working within a possession engaged in lifting out the track panels on the redundant "Creep Up". The track panels were loaded onto "Salmon Wagons" and at the end of the job the wagons were taken by the 08 shunter to Clarence Yarid.

I believe it may have been the electrification of the Canonbury Spur that led to the decision to abandon the "Creep Up".

Dave Cockle

[manna]

G'Day Gents
I suppose it come down to this, No, DMU's from Western Sidings, No LE movements, No, run round freights, No need to keep it. RIP
manna

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents
I suppose it come down to this, No, DMU's from Western Sidings, No LE movements, No, run round freights, No need to keep it. RIP
manna

That's about it, manna; plus no ECS from Holloway CS to get back 'the Cross'.