A4 No 4489 'DOMINON OF CANADA'

[Tom F]

I have been reading up about this particular A4

What I'm interested to know is when she was fitted with a bell?

And I know she had a different chime whistle, a Canadian Pacific 5 chime whistle, would it have sounded something like this Canadian locos whistle
heard at 24 seconds into the video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfhhg3qiMT0


cheers

Tom

[third-rail]

l
after watching a few of these videos on that site was it normal practice in canada/usa to have two whistles or chimes ie one behind the funnel and one halfway down the length of the boiler

[stembok]

TomTank: date of fitting of bell to 4489 given as 11th March 1938. At first it could be operated ,but it once jammed in the open position and was then rendered inoperative. Removed when 60010 was fitted with a double chimney in late 1957, the bell was reportedly sent back to Canada with the engine in 1967. 4489/60010 lost its CPR whistle, carried from 1937, in 1949. A4 60013 also carried a deeper toned NZR whistle from 1939, as did 60012 fitted with a Western Australian Railways whistle in its last years in service. 4488 is also noted as having carried an SAR whistle pre-war. (From RCTS 'green book') There was also a report that 60002 had been fitted with a Britannia pattern whistle in its last years in service. It certainly sounded different. During WW2, from 1942, most of the chime whistles were removed in case of confusion with the sound of air raid sirens.

[Tom F]

TomTank: date of fitting of bell to 4489 given as 11th March 1938. At first it could be operated ,but it once jammed in the open position and was then rendered inoperative. Removed when 60010 was fitted with a double chimney in late 1957, the bell was reportedly sent back to Canada with the engine in 1967. 4489/60010 lost its CPR whistle, carried from 1937, in 1949. A4 60013 also carried a deeper toned NZR whistle from 1939, as did 60012 fitted with a Western Australian Railways whistle in its last years in service. 4488 is also noted as having carried an SAR whistle pre-war. (From RCTS 'green book') There was also a report that 60002 had been fitted with a Britannia pattern whistle in its last years in service. It certainly sounded different. Duirng WW2, from 1942, most of the chime whistles were removed in case of confusion with the sound of air raid sirens.

That' really interesting...do you know the date in which the bell jammed....just so I know the years in which it was operative.

Also would the loco in the video I made a link to in my first comment have a whistle that is somewhat similar sounding to what 4489 would have had fitted when new?

Cheers

Tom

[Colombo]

I recall that I read that the NZR chime whistle from 60013 was at one time in the FR museum at Portmadoc, but that it has since been lost.
Does that ring a bell with anybody?

Colombo

[stembok]

TomTank: Afraid not. Reportedly 4489 was leaving K/X on the down Coronation and the Gateshead driver operated the bell for a young enthusiast on the platform. He could not turn it off and continued to the York stop where he at last managed to shut off the steam supply. The engine came off the train at Newcastle. Has to be between March 1938 and August 1939.
Colombo: your story re: 60013 chimes in with something I heard. I believe 4492/60013's whistle, together with the chime whistle formerly carried by 4489/60010 was stolen during a break in at Porthmadog, Festiniog Railway C1963 and never recovered.

[Tom F]

Thanks Stembok...That's an interesting little tale....I might use that story in North Eastern Steam
Does anyone know exactly how a 5 note chime sounds....I want to get hold of one to use for North Eastern Steam when portraying 4489.

Cheers

Tom

[stembok]

TomTank: 4492/60013 carrried a five note whistle similar to 4489, but with a lower pitch. In the 1960s Argo-Transacord sold LPs and EPs of trains in action. One, an EP entitled 'Gresley Pacifics?', with a Colin Walker photo of 60007 and 60034 at Peterborough on the cover, had a recording of 60013 storming through Retford with the whistle open .It was, I thought, a less melodious sound than the standard A4 tritone whistle. Wonder if anyone has a recording anywhere? The whistle of the Hudson on the film clip does remind me of it, but hey I'm talking a long time ago.

[Tom F]

TomTank: 4492/60013 carrried a five note whistle similar to 4489, but with a lower pitch. In the 1960s Argo-Transacord sold LPs and EPs of trains in action. One, an EP entitled 'Gresley Pacifics?', with a Colin Walker photo of 60007 and 60034 at Peterborough on the cover, had a recording of 60013 storming through Retford with the whistle open .It was, I thought, a less melodious sound than the standard A4 tritone whistle. Wonder if anyone has a recording anywhere? The whistle of the Hudson on the film clip does remind me of it, but hey I'm talking a long time ago.

Thats quite helpful. Due to North Eastern Steam earning small amount of revenue, I can only use sounds that are my own or I have had permission, so sadly the Argo recordings are out.

I asked the chap if I could use the Hudson recording and he said yes.

If it reminds you of the Dominion whistle, no matter how long....then thats good enough for me

Tom

[redtoon1892]

I have several Transacord and Argos L.Ps and along with about 600 others in my garage but nothing to play them on, I know one of them is 60007s 112 M.P.H. run in 1959 with Bill Hoole driving, he claims in his semi autobiography that he could have topped Mallards record that day but was stopped from doing so by the B.R. inspector onboard who was under instruction not to let Hoole attempt it as they has an inkling he would try this being his swansong. One L.P. is a mish mash of recordings from various main line stations across the network. There are also a couple of cassettes of Deltics in service.

[owd sweedy]

Hi Tom Tank, While researching an article for the CRHA's magazine "Canadian Rail" at their museum archives in Montreal, on how D of C came to be in Canada, I came across this bell story and that it was, as Stembok says, disabled just before the outbreak of World War 11 (September 1939), but no precise date. I also saw another anecdotal reference that mentioned the clapper being removed from the bell during WW11, because...no bells were to be rung except to notify an invasion. If it was, it was put back again as it can clearly be seen in a publicity photo taken in May 1949 at KX, at the naming ceremony for the Capitals Limited. Incidentally the bell is in the museum but not at the moment on display.
Cheers.

[rob237]

There is also an Argo Transacord LP (title name eludes me) which includes the 60013 chime, as it slowly passes Peterborough on the down Elizabethan. I'll have a search around...
Cheers
Robt P.

[Tom F]

Cheers Rob, would be interesting to hear and see how close it is to the Hudson

Cheers

Tom

[rob237]

Tom,

Have found the LP in question:
"North of Kings Cross" (mono), with 60031 at Galashiels on the cover.
60010 also features on the same Peterborough band as the 60013 chime!
Will attempt to have it copied onto audio cassette (I lack both the kit and the brains!) for onward dispatch to you...

I've also found an EP entitled "Pacific Power" (stereo, with 4472 on the cover) which might relate to Stembok's earlier contribution.
"The distinctively deep toned chime whistle of 60013 Dominion of New Zealand sounds twice as the A4 tears through Hitchin station on a falling gradient..."
Being an EP, easily dispatchable...
Do send me your address details in a PM and I'll forward it on, with my compliments.

Will advise if/when I can get the Peterborough track onto cassette...

Neither record has been played for around 40 years!...so they'll need some TLC

Cheers
Robt P.

[Tom F]

Thats very kind of you mate

I'll PM you shortly

although not the same whistle as 4498, from all counts it's similar and gives me an idea of what Dominion of Canada's whistle sounded like

cheers

Tom