Tynemouth Station

[Trestrol]

The north bays were used for trains to Blyth via the Avenue Branch (Monkseaton - Hartley) and electric trains from Newcastle via Benton.
I have a number of photos of the station including THIS one of the NBR terminus which was used as the goods station.Search my photostream for Tynemouth to see the others.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinzac55/3708066984/

What brilliant pictures! Of coarse the goods lift building still contains the coal fired vertical steam boiler to provide the Hydraulic power for the lift a remarkable survivor. Also liked your pickture of West Monkseaton station Those scissor gates still exist i believe as they were just borded over in the recessed holes when the station was converted for the Metro. I think they did the same with the Booking office windows as well, and of course West monkseaton probably holds the Honour of having the last surviving complete Gents toilets on the North Tyne Loop!

[Percy Main]

Here's a signalling diagram for Tynemouth North box. You notice that the platform nearest the road is labelled "No 1 Dock" but the others are not labelled i.e passenger platforms.They also have release crossovers at the buffers so they were intended to be used by steam hauled services as well as electric units.

Fascinating, thank you. Does this suggest, then, that the north bays were intended as the terminus of the Blyth service (rather than Monkseaton), but maybe the paths could not be found within the electric service? (It has been suggested they actually were used as such, but I would be interested to see timetable evidence.) The platforms look too short for excursion traffic (from and to Scotland, for example).

[PinzaC55]

Thanks for your kind comments guys!
"Trestrol" I had no idea the steam engine was still in the lift tower - I thought it was all bricked up? We need a photo! BTW, I had to go into the ticket office in 1979 and it was like a museum - everything was NER.
Percy Main, I can't remember where I read about the Blyth trains running through to Tynemouth but it's logical when you think that most of the Blythians would want to go to Whitley Bay, Cullercoats or Tynemouth and wouldn't want to change at Monkseaton. In 1979 I applied to BR to buy the 2 redundant spectacle plates from the bracket signal and I actually climbed it while trains were running and sawed them off as the rods were rusted to the plates! You'll notice that in my "winter" photo of the main platforms only one of the through lines is retained; this was for a once a week parcels train which ran round on the through line, using the crossover at Tynemouth North via the 2 mini "sub" signals.Sadly when the Metro took over the signal was torched through at the base and fell over the bay platforms, where it was still lying in 1990.

[Percy Main]

Percy Main, I can't remember where I read about the Blyth trains running through to Tynemouth but it's logical when you think that most of the Blythians would want to go to Whitley Bay, Cullercoats or Tynemouth and wouldn't want to change at Monkseaton.

Yes, I agree, especially when the original Blyth and Tyne service ran through to North Shields Terminus/Tynemouth - that might have provided reason enough to think a new service should run through to there. It's just that I have not seen any evidence of an actual Blyth service through to the 'new' NER Tynemouth - which is not to say there was never one, at least in the early (pre-electrification?) period.

It's interesting also to see from the plan that the south bays were not fitted up for running around - which is sort of circumstantial evidence that a non-electric service from the north (and that could only be Blyth) was envisaged. Also that the so-called 'through' lines - which always seemed to me a bit of an extravagance - are actually also access lines to the former Blyth and Tyne station/coal depot.

The more I think about it, the more I think the layout at Tynemouth reflects wishful thinking rather than actual practice. When it was built Tynemouth Village was the principal destination on the coast, but within a decade new housing had sprung up to the north, and Whitley Bay emerged as a more important resort. There would be little point in circle services via Wallsend terminating at Tynemouth, which made the south bays unimportant for passenger trains, and the density of electric traffic made it more convenient for Blyth trains to terminate at Monkseaton. It might have been different had an electric service to Colywell Bay opened, but even so I imagine the destination for most passengers travelling to or from there would have been Newcastle rather than Tynemouth and the north bays would still have been bypassed.

In practice very few trains started or teminated at Tynemouth, and my original question "What were the north bays [actually] used for [if anything much]?" remains open.

Percy

[limitofshunt]

A very quick look through the NER 1911 working timetable for the Tynemouth lines shows the Blyth to Monkseaton services, with some having footnotes about starting / terminating at Tynemouth, so presumably these did work a Tynemouth to Blyth service...


Jon

[Percy Main]

A very quick look through the NER 1911 working timetable for the Tynemouth lines shows the Blyth to Monkseaton services, with some having footnotes about starting / terminating at Tynemouth, so presumably these did work a Tynemouth to Blyth service...


Jon

Thank you. Any chance of more details?

Percy

[limitofshunt]

OK, here goes.... hopefully I've read the WTT correctly, but in 1911 there seem to be four services per day that run between Tynemouth and Blyth, plus one extra on Saturdays:

Code: Select all

                      (a)        (b)
Tynemouth       10 8    11 8    1 18
Monkseaton      10 15   11 15   1 26
Hartley         10 22   11 22   .. ..
Newsham         10 26   11 26   1 37
Blyth           10 30   11 30

(a) Services run weekdays, steam autocar 
(b) Saturdays only, empty set.


Blyth           9 35    10 35
Newsham         9 40    10 40
Hartley         9 44    10 44
Monkseaton      9 51    10 51
Tynemouth       9 58    10 58

Both steam autocar services on weekdays

Interestingly, there's no mention of the Blyth - Tynemouth services in the LNER 1938 WTT - they seem to have been reduced to just Blyth - Monkseaton.




Jon

[Percy Main]

Thank you so much. I can't imagine what the purpose of these trips was, but at least this confirms the existence of a service, and probably of the use (and original purpose) of the north bay. They could simply represent the rump of a more extensive service that had been reduced (as I suggested earlier) because of the difficulty of finding paths within the electric service. It's not clear from the timings whether the autocar was stopping at Whitley Bay and Cullercoats - the DMUs had 8 minutes each way in 1967. The lack of a service by the 1930s suggests the bay was probably out of regular use by then.

Percy

[limitofshunt]

It looks like Whitley Bay and Cullercoats weren't stops on the Tynemouth - Blyth services (at least in the WTT there's a '....' in the column for those stations.) It's a bit odd that these stations would be missed out, I would have expected a service like that to stop at all stations en route.

Jon

[Percy Main]

It looks like Whitley Bay and Cullercoats weren't stops on the Tynemouth - Blyth services (at least in the WTT there's a '....' in the column for those stations.) It's a bit odd that these stations would be missed out, I would have expected a service like that to stop at all stations en route.

Jon

It looks to me as if these two trips had some 'ulterior' purpose: maybe it wasn't possible for some scheduling reason for them to turn at Monkseaton, or the company was under some obligation to maintain a Blyth - Tynemouth service and this was a quiet time of day for them to 'pretend' they were doing so.

[PinzaC55]

"It looks to me as if these two trips had some 'ulterior' purpose: maybe it wasn't possible for some scheduling reason for them to turn at Monkseaton, or the company was under some obligation to maintain a Blyth - Tynemouth service and this was a quiet time of day for them to 'pretend' they were doing so."

Doubtful. There was an extensive fan of carriage sidings at the south end of Mokseaton station (on the left of the box in my photo below) on the alignment of the original coast line further inland.BTW note the little NER cast iron circuit braker box to the left of the signalbox.
I very much doubt that the LNER had any obligation to run certain services in the way TOC's now have have to operate a "minimum" service like 4 trains a day to Whitby.

[Percy Main]

J. A. Wells The Blyth and Tyne Branch 1874 - 1989 (1990) reminds me that passenger services on the Avenue Branch were withdrawn in 1864 when the line from Newcastle (New Bridge Street) to Tynemouth via Benton was opened. He points out also, however, how the 1877 timetable shows a single weekly service on the line from Morpeth to Tynemouth returning to Blyth. This left Morpeth at 915 and Tynemouth at 1015 on Sunday nights (and goodness knows who travelled on it). He says direct services were restored between Monkseaton and Hartley in June 1904 to link up with the new electric trains, but doesn't specify whether or not these actually terminated at Monkseaton or ran through to Tynemouth (they probably didn't terminate at Hartley going the other way).

I still think that the north bay platforms at (1882) Tynemouth were probably intended for Blyth and Avenue branch services, the NER thinking that demand for these would eventually grow. As it turned out this did not happen and the branch only ever carried a small number of trains a day - and these could conveniently terminate at Monkseaton. I am still not clear what the point of the two morning extensions to Tynemouth in 1911 was.

Incidentally, I think there were obligations on railway companies to run particular services even a century or more ago, and also, for example, to make 'workmens' fares available on a certain number of trains (the abbreviation 'GOV' at the head of the columns in the 1877 timetable (including that of the Tynemouth train), I think, refers to the latter). The 1844 Railways Act required the companies to provide "one Train at least each way on every week-day".

[PinzaC55]

"Incidentally, I think there were obligations on railway companies to run particular services even a century or more ago, and also, for example, to make 'workmens' fares available on a certain number of trains. The abbreviation 'GOV' at the head of the columns in the 1877 timetable (including that of the Tynemouth train), I think, refers to the latter."

Oh yes, those were know as "Parly" trains (parliament) or commonly as "milk trains".But it was a different pronciple to nowadays where in the runup to privatisation British Rail reduced services to a bare minimum - such as Newcastle - Chathill and Whitby and of the course the TOC's have never restored them.

[Percy Main]

"Incidentally, I think there were obligations on railway companies to run particular services even a century or more ago, and also, for example, to make 'workmens' fares available on a certain number of trains. The abbreviation 'GOV' at the head of the columns in the 1877 timetable (including that of the Tynemouth train), I think, refers to the latter."

Oh yes, those were know as "Parly" trains (parliament) or commonly as "milk trains".But it was a different pronciple to nowadays where in the runup to privatisation British Rail reduced services to a bare minimum - such as Newcastle - Chathill and Whitby and of the course the TOC's have never restored them.

You're right, but don't you think the 'Parly' requirement (or something like it) could possibly explain the 1911 trains? It's hard to see the point of them otherwise.

[Trestrol]

"It looks to me as if these two trips had some 'ulterior' purpose: maybe it wasn't possible for some scheduling reason for them to turn at Monkseaton, or the company was under some obligation to maintain a Blyth - Tynemouth service and this was a quiet time of day for them to 'pretend' they were doing so."

Doubtful. There was an extensive fan of carriage sidings at the south end of Mokseaton station (on the left of the box in my photo below) on the alignment of the original coast line further inland.BTW note the little NER cast iron circuit braker box to the left of the signalbox.
I very much doubt that the LNER had any obligation to run certain services in the way TOC's now have have to operate a "minimum" service like 4 trains a day to Whitby.

I remember this box well when i used to cross the footbridge on the way to school. Before it was demolished the roof looked very unstable as vandels had removed some of the front supports. |It still retained its lever frame and if my mind serves me right one of the nameboards survived as it had rotted through.