What is it 2

Kyle1987 · Post by **Kyle1987** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:39 pm

I know that Pan was the ancient Greek god of shepards and had the head and legs of a goat... So does mean that it has something to do with Greece?

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:12 pm

Well you see the EM2s were developed from an LNER design and all named after female mythological beings. I think that Juno was a patron goddess of Rome/the Truscans, and an EM2, and Pandora may have come from the land of Pan, but she was not really a goddess.

I shall have to think a bit more deeply.

We are still with the LNER aren't we?

Colombo

61650GTFC · Post by **61650GTFC** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:17 pm

A number of the EM1's where also named after greek and Roman Mythology. I thought maybe the name was Arcadia but can only find a ship and a pullman coach of that name. for some reason I keep thinking there may be a GWR loco or an industrial called Arcadia. Dont ask me why I think that cos I dont know!

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:21 am

OK,

I think I might have the answer.

The twinkling stream could be Starbeck. All the named engines at Starbeck were Hunts.

Pan was often depicted as having the extremities of a goat. So Pan's people were goats and perhaps lived in Goathland.

Shedded at Starbeck we had D49 no 62765, The Goathland.

OK so far, but why, oh why, the Patron Goddess of her class? Could it be Diana, Goddess of the Hunt?

Colombo

John B · Post by **John B** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:55 am

OK,

I think you have the answer Colombo, all your surmise is well founded!

The patron Goddess of the hunt was indeed Diana, but you knew that already.

I can see that these clues are way too easy for you Colombo, I shall have to come up with something a little more tricky for you if and when my turn comes round again

Let's keep the ball in play eh?

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:14 pm

John,

Here goes then:

1. You can see old 4479, his number, less a couple of tizzies.
2. An older driver may have supported 2849 or 2861 but definitely not both.
3. U boat pens at the end of the Canal saved 300 miles.

Colombo

John B · Post by **John B** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:18 am

Colombo,

You have set some hares running here.

This is going to take me some time, grits teeth!

Is "Solario" anything to do with clue one?

I seem to be able to partially solve the other two clues but can't seem to string it all together to identify one specific loco.

No, I have not given up, but I may need some time?

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:18 pm

John,

This is cover within cover. There are two layers.

Solario is not involved, because her old number was 4473.

Have you found out the value of a tizzy yet?

Keep trying. I dread to think what you will come up with next. Possibly an underarm lob off the base line aimed at the opposite bottom corner, or will it be a sort of impossible back spin slice over the net that bounces back again?

Colombo

John B · Post by **John B** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:22 am

Colombo,

The way I got at “Solario” was like this:
4479 was A3 “Robert The Devil”,
the devil’s number is 666,
a tizzy is an old sixpence,
two tizzies makes 12 old pence,
so this can then go one of several ways:
either minus two separate sixes off 666, leaving 6?
(his number less a couple of tizzies)
Then 6 off 4479 leaving A3 4473 “Solario”
(I also wondered if 6 could be the shed number but that leaves London Midland Region shed Chester 6A – an unlikely choice!)
or either 12 off 666 leaving 654?!??!
or 1 whole shilling off 4479 leaving A3 4478 “Hermit” 12 old pence off 4479 leaves 4467 – no such LNER number.

So now you can see the contortions of my mind and the multiplicity of “possible” answers and permutations and I still cannot tie one of these answers to either clues two or three.
The main unfathomable in clue one is the act of “seeing” old 4479, “Robert The Devil” I feel the answer to clue one lies there somewhere.
I have the two football clubs and the B17’s but???? Perhaps Sheffield is where this mystery loco is shedded! Clue three I am still working on.

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:53 am

John,

I see the leetle grey cells they are working, n'est ce pas.

Have you forgotten that two sixpences make a shilling or a "bob"?

You are getting close, and I think you understand the second clue as well.

You just need to crack the third.

Colombo

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:44 pm

Folks, if you are still with me:

By now I think that you have deduced that you are looking for a number with 666 in it and that the loco was shedded at Sheffield, 41A.

[No. 4479 was Robert the Devil, (one of the first two A3s to be named after race horses, but that is irrelevant), Robert is otherwise known as Bob = 1Shilling = Two sixpenses or Tizzies to use an old name for the coin. So you will see the Devils number, which is 666, It was hardly likely to be just 6 because all ex-LNER numbers start with 6.]

The driver may have been a supporter of either Sheffield United or Wednesday [these are both B17s with footballer names], but not both (Football supporters in Sheffield were too partisan for that in my experience).

So find me a ex-LNER namer shedded in Sheffield, related to U boat pens with 666 in its number. Think WW1.

Colombo

John B · Post by **John B** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:02 pm

Colombo,

I nearly had It!!!

"Jutland" I thought, The Kiel canal is in Jutland and is the only canal with U boat pens at it's end that would save 300 miles - round Denmark, but D11 has got the wrong number, 62668.

I had also seen D11 "Zeebrugge" number 62666, however the Bruges canal did have U boat pens at it's end but is only eight miles long and I cannot see how it could save three hundred miles.

I only have a 1950 ABC and Sheffield is given as shed 19A, my book shows 62666 shedded at 40B Immingham, that's why the penny never dropped with me!

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:15 pm

John,

Oh dear, we shall have to call a moritorium on giving shed locations as clues, as they do change. In my 1959 Locoshed book nearly all the D11s are on 41A, which should have told you that it could be a GCR engine, which have not had a mention yet.

As the U boats did not have as far to go from Zeebrugge, as from a more northern German port, they could save 300 miles on each trip to the English Channel.

I thought a WW1 based clue was suitable as we are remembering that it is 90 years since the Somme, where my wife's Uncle was killed. Also, the losses suffered by The Royal Navy and The Merchant Navy at that time were horrendous, but hardly ever get a mention.

U boats destroyed 510,000 tonnes of allied shipping in March 1917 alone.

Can we have a ruling on a cut off date for named locos? Do they have to have survived after 1948 for example?

That was a hard one, any body else like to have a go?

Colombo

John B · Post by **John B** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:45 am

OK,

Here's a little something to while away the hours

And yes! this is an LNER locomotive

1. A double barrelled round wing
2. An idiot's hat
3. Yat's noggin

For reference, I used the 1950 ABC Combined volume

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:29 pm

John,

I am getting Simon here:

The second clue has potential connections with Simple Simon.

The third clue could be referring to the first or head part of Symonds Yat.

So we could be looking for 60112, St. Simon which was also LNER 4481:a double number 4, 8 could be round wings and "A" could be 1.

If I am barking up the wrong tree, it is a nice and fitting tree to be barking up!

Colombo