Ponsbourne Tunnel and The Royal Train

[Dave Cockle]

I have read in a couple of publications that the Royal Train was stabled overnight a few times in Ponsbourne Tunnel between Bayford and Cuffley stations on the Hertford Loop. This was during the second world war. I believe this is an urban myth and that it was Molewood Tunnel north of Hertford North that was used. I say this as I recall in the 1970's when I worked at Hertford N an older member of the P'way
Staff telling me he had the job of replacing an empty bucket(s) under the outlet from the train toilet(s) as required. He was posted at Molewood Tunnel.

Operationally Molewood Tunnel would have been far more suitable due to less train movements over the section of line North of Hertford and also the availability of a water supply for the loco at Hertford just three quarters of a mile away.

Any forum members have any comments?

[manna]

G'Day Gents
I agree that Moleworth Tunnel would be a lot more logical place to stable the Royal train, but the only thing that makes me think otherwise, would be the amount of traffic using a double mainline into London.
manna

[ajax103]

Hi Dave,

good to hear from you again, yes I've heard this story from quite a few places and as far as I am aware, Ponsbourne Tunnel was used for a anti aircraft train when the Luftwaffe came and Molewood tunnel was used for the Royal Train.

Bearing in mind that there where some points just north of the station which enable services to cross onto the Down from the Up and in reverse, there points were shown in a 1924 diagram of the station, no idea when the points got taken out though but considering the points at Watton At Stone, I think it's perfectly possible for the Royal Train to have been stabled there.

http://newimages.fotopic.net/?iid=yvuws ... quality=70

[Boris]

The royal train was parked at Eckington and Renishaw over night and only the Station Master was allowed to empty the "buckets"

On another occasion it was parked on the Sheffield and District Railway where Tinsley Yard was later built.

New point work and crossings were put in at Brightside and when the train had gone into the branch they were lifted over night.

Next morning relaid to allow the train out to Sheffield Midland then later relaid with the origional pointwork.

Over 500 City Of Sheffield police were in the area on bridges and around the area all night.

By the way all toilet signs on staions on the route were covered or taken down.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Back in the early 70's there was a GN (I think) signalbox in a backyard at the North End of Moleworth Tunnel, anybody know if it's still there, or what happened to it, thanks
manna

[ajax103]

G'Day Gents
Back in the early 70's there was a GN (I think) signalbox in a backyard at the North End of Moleworth Tunnel, anybody know if it's still there, or what happened to it, thanks
manna

I'm not aware of this, would be interesting to find out though - oh yeah and it's Molewood Tunnel if you still referring to the tunnel near Hertford North.

[hq1hitchin]

G'Day Gents
Back in the early 70's there was a GN (I think) signalbox in a backyard at the North End of Moleworth Tunnel, anybody know if it's still there, or what happened to it, thanks
manna

I'm not aware of this, would be interesting to find out though - oh yeah and it's Molewood Tunnel if you still referring to the tunnel near Hertford North.

Quite right, it was part of a collection of signalling equipment in the back garden of Jack Walduck, who worked on the S&T in Hitchin. Jack died a long time ago and it's not there now, so they tell me. I also understand that his collection was passed on to other collectors so it is very likely still saved for posterity. In the days - the 1970s - before a regular passenger service north of Hertford we would sometimes stop if we were on an engineers train and climb up the bank to have a look at Jack's stuff. RIP Jack

[hq1hitchin]

As for the Royal Train being stabled overnight on the New Line, I was always led to believe that it was Molewood Tunnel was used and not Ponsbourne. Just had that confirmed by my old chief, who became Chief Divisional Inpector, Kings Cross (some of you will know who I mean!), so that's good enough for me.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Thanks for that, always looked forward to working over the 'New Line' and Molewood Tunnel (do'nt know where Moleworth came from) had a nice little collection there in the back yard and a fair size somersalt signal, I heard it told that it was Molewood box?? was there one, once upon a time that was in the garden?
Always got a bit of a buzz going over that line then, as it saw very few trains a day, a couple of ECS trains and a parcels train in the evening, Oh and the sand train, how could I forget, to me, that bit of the line was so remote from London yet so close.
manna

[hq1hitchin]

Have just re-discovered my copy of 'Triumph and beyond ECML 1939 - 1959' and Mr Brooksbank quotes some Royal Trains as being stabled for a 'night halt' at Hertford Nth - night of 11th/12th June 1942 (no times mentioned) en route to E Anglia then again 6th/7th August dep KX 22:00 dep Hertford Nth 06:55 for Melton (via Ipswich). In 1943 we have 8th/9th April Aycliffe - KX with another night halt shown and arrival time at KX of 09:02. and down again 25th/27th May, KX dep 19:15, Hertford stable 20:00 to 09:08 then off to Royston (Herts) and finally (HMK only) on the night of 1st/2nd Feb 1945, 19:00 Wolferton to KX, Hertford Nth 21:30 to 08:30 and arriving KX 09:45. You may depend these were north of the station, and almost certainly in Molewood Tunnel. Incidentally, for overnight journeys, the LMS Royal Train (from Wolverton) tended to be used as it had sleeping accomodation.

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents
Back in the early 70's there was a GN (I think) signalbox in a backyard at the North End of Moleworth Tunnel, anybody know if it's still there, or what happened to it, thanks
manna

I'm not aware of this, would be interesting to find out though - oh yeah and it's Molewood Tunnel if you still referring to the tunnel near Hertford North.

Quite right, it was part of a collection of signalling equipment in the back garden of Jack Walduck, who worked on the S&T in Hitchin. Jack died a long time ago and it's not there now, so they tell me. I also understand that his collection was passed on to other collectors so it is very likely still saved for posterity. In the days - the 1970s - before a regular passenger service north of Hertford we would sometimes stop if we were on an engineers train and climb up the bank to have a look at Jack's stuff. RIP Jack

Can't shed any light on where the 'Waldock collection' might have ended up, either. (Though the name 'Fleggborough' comes to mind ? ; for the box perhaps?)
But a good part of it spent quite a while (in the 1980's?) in Knebworth Park, with the "Knebworth (& Wintergreen"? ; narrow gauge) Railway, located not far NW of Knebworth House. Some equipment, including 'Molewood' box, and, as "Nup End" box, a further, tiny one (I think it had been the hut for Harringay 'West' Up Goods ground frame), were used to operate the railway.
Much of the rest was near the railway's one station, as a partly-fenced, open air 'hands on' working signalling collection for the railway's visitors and riders.
The only other thing I can say is that the railway and equipment have not been in that location for quite a few years now.

[R. pike]

Molewood box is now safely in the hands of a good friend. Nup End is at the Yaxham light railway and i have Jack's concrete miniature somersault. I'm afraid all the collection is well scattered now. I do have this however...

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p63562977.html

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Thanks for that, it's nice to know that it's still around and has'nt been lost
manna

[StevieG]

Molewood box is now safely in the hands of a good friend. Nup End is at the Yaxham light railway and i have Jack's concrete miniature somersault. I'm afraid all the collection is well scattered now. I do have this however...

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p63562977.html

Yes, thanks RP. Good to know it hasn't all been dispersed 'out of sight'.