question for manna

[bobser]

Good evening everyone.

I have just become a member of this site and have found it to be really interesting and I particularly enjoyed the Memories Section.

From 1969 to 1972 I was a Goods Guard at Grantham. In fact I started my railway career there. My question of manna is - whilst you were a Secondman at KX did you ever work 4E35 Bathgate to Barking Ripple Lane or Dagenham Dock?
Grantham Guards used to travel out to Doncaster and worked this train, which was formed of empty Cartics and/or Carflats, to Finsbury Park. KX locomen also worked this train from Doncaster to Finsbury Park. It was booked to leave Doncaster at 1200 and to arrive Finsbury Park at 1520 (MSX) and 1458 (S0).
I used to like this diagram and often used to swop for it. IMHO it certainly was better than working the iron ore trips from Highdyke to Stainby or Sproxton.

bobser

[manna]

G'Day Bobser
Welcome aboard.
I do remember the 4E35 car train, although I never worked it, I did work the return working from Dagenham Dock to Finsbury Pk, used to pick a light engine up at the Passenger loco, then run light via Stratford and Barking to Dag Dock, and usually hooked up to 20 carflats or I think 15 Cartics, full of Cortinas or Escorts, then back to Finsbury Pk again via Barking and Stratford, use to like the Main line run on the GE, all of a mile, mile and a half of it, we'd then get relieved at Finsbury Pk, never really knew by who, it was always dark.

I think 4E35 was the cartic train involved it the Finsbury Pk crash (March 1971) when it was rammed from behind by a DMU, (in the memories thread) it often ran a bit late and tangled it's self in with the evening rush
manna


You know it's summer in South Australia when you can drink a gallon and don't need a toilet

[bobser]

Thanks manna for your quick reply. I appreciate it.

Unfortunately I can't recall the accident at Finsbury Park but you will be right when you say that 4E35 was probably the train invcolved.

Often, if we were running late, we would be turned in at Cemetery and ended up on the Goods Line at New Southgate where Control would instruct us to leave our train there and take the engine, inevitably a Class 40 to King's Cross Passenger Loco. There were other occasions where we left the train at Finsbury Park.

There was one time at New Southgate where I was lucky not to be castrated. I was in the process of uncoupling the loco from the train ( can you tell me why we employed Secondmen in these days as South of York they wouldn't couple or uncouple locos from trains,yet York and North thereof the former NE Secondmen did so)
I had already uncoupled the brake pipes and the engine coupling when I rememberd that I had to open the Brake Pipe cock to expel any air left in the system. Unfortunately I forgot to hold onto the brake pipe and when I opened the cock the pipe sprung upwards. I was lucky though as it swung away from me. Had it went the other way it would have hit me right in "my pearly parts", Not a pleasant thought. Mind you I never forgot to hold onto the brake pipe in future.

In your time at the Cross did you ever come across a Scots Driver called Eric (Jock) Dempsey? He transferred originally from Edinburgh Haymarket to Gateshead in the early 70's then to KX in the mid 70's. He was a right character.
I moved from Grantham to Newcastle as a Passenger Guard in 1972 and before I left I was told all about him by another Driver who had transferred from Haymarket to Grantham. This Driver's advice to was along the lines of "hit him first before you speak to him!"
The first time I did meet him was whilst I was working a DMU around the North Tyne loop line. This line had a 20 minute service in either direction from Newcastle to Newcastle. One service went outwards via Benton and the other went outwards via Wallsend. Either way you ended up back in Newcastle. Most of this route was taken over by The Tyneside Metro who are still operating there today.

Anyhow, back to my story about Driver Dempsey. The trains around the North Tyne were normally worked by Drivers from South Gosforth Shed which was a sub shed of Gateshead. Now the timings of the Off Peak trains on this loop were very slack and most South Gosforth Drivers took this into consideration and didn't speed between stations as if they did they would just have to stand waiting time at stations. Trouble was the driving duties were often covered by some drivers from Gateshead's Spare Link and it was in this link that Driver Dempsey was located.
On the day in question I was his Guard and we were on a service outwards via Benton. I had to wait time at every station and believe me when you had to do this the journey seemed to take twice as long. Anyway, as I was getting fed up at Monkseaton Station I walked up to the front cab and asked my driver where the fire was and what was the hurry. I forget his answer but when I heard his broad Scots accent and the fact I had never seen him before I asked ih he was Eric Dempsey and he replied that he was. I tried to give him some advice about timing these trains bu unfortunately it was to no avail.

Another story I remember was one Saturday night he was working an overnight train to London where he and his Secondman would lodge. All was well until they cleared Stoke Tunnel. The next signal was off to turn them onto the Up Slow. Eric stops the train and gets on the SP telephone and in no uncertain terms tells the Signalman that he only knows the Main Line and that the Signalman had better resignal him via the main line to which the signalman replies that he cannot as there was an Engineering Possession on and they were booked to run Slow Line. Obviously Eric hadn't read his notices but his secondman came to his rescue on this occasion as he was aa passed man and could drive that part of the line.

The last time I saw Eric was in the late 70's when I was passing through the Cross on holiday and sitting there on a Class 31 at the buffers of the old Platform 10 was Eric on ECS duties. I couldn' resist making some remark about how the mighty had fallen or words to that effect and was told to F*** Off before we had a chat.

Aye, he was a real character was Eric. I think if you had ever met him you would remember him.

bobser

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Sorry do'nt recall Eric, I think he arrived at the Cross after I left,but I use to like sitting on a loco at the buffer stops, watching the world go by, there use to be a job in the early 70's where you had to fill the boiler water tank (Clss 31), there were water pipes on the floor by the buffer stops (8/10) tried everything to get that hose pipe on that loco but they kept falling off, so I tried to fill the tank through the roof, I did eventually get it filled but as I took it off and after turning the water off there must have been a couple of gallons still in the pipe, I was drowned from the waist down, it was a very long trip home that night

I think they employed plenty of shunters on the old GN, thats why we did'nt have to couple up or uncouple, but we use to do the honours at Cambridge, ex GE also at Stratford but not at Temple Mills, don't you hate New Vacuum pipes, like trying to bend a streetlamp
manna

[bobser]

Hi manna.

Re vacuum pipes, they were a real pain when they were new but the ones I used to find the worst were the "swan neck" types. It was bad enough coupling them to a "normal" low pipe but if you got two "swan necks" to couple together they were nigh on impossible and more so if one or both was a new pipe. I had to get assistance from someone (anyone) else to hold one pipe whilst I held the other and eventually we would get them coupled.

Referring back to 4E35 there was one day when we blocked the Up East Coast Main Line for a time. What happened was shortly after passing Biggleswade we lost Brake Pipe pressure and came to a stand near to where Langford Bridge signal box used to be. When I checked the train I found a burst Brake Pipe on one of the Cartics. We had no way of repairing it so we decided we needed assistance in the rear and whilst my Driver was arranging this I carried out my detonator protection and decided to keep on walking back to Biggleswade to join the assisting train or engine there.
Whilst walking back a Leeds to KX express approached on the Up Slow line and it stopped at me. I learned from a Traction Inspector who wasn't very happy that they had been stopped at Biggleswade as we were still in section. His biggest gripe was that as Biggleswade didn't have a facing Up Main to Up Slow connection only a connection from the Up Slow to Up Main. Consequently he had to Clip the points to allow the train to set back from the Up Main to the Up Slow to allow them to continue there journey. I think he was annoyed as he had gotten his hands dirty. He also told me that an assistant engine was being sent out to us.

As I was nearing Biggleswade box a Class 31, apparently from Hitchin Shed arrived and was going to assist us in the rear. What the crew of the Class 31 didn't tell me until we were en route to the failed 4E35 that they had brought a fitter with them and when we arrived at the rear of 4E35 I discovered that said fitter had apparently brought a new Brake Pipe with him and had fitted it to the Cartic so 4E35 was back in action but unfortunately we had this Class 31 to deal with. It was decided to couple the Class 31 onto the back of 4E35 and of course "muggins here" had to do the coupling on. So off we set and were signalled onto the Up Slow at Arlesey where we stopped and "muggins" again had to uncouple the Class 31.
So off we set again but of course by this time we were well late, had lost our path and as 4E35 couldn't get a path beyond Finsbury Park due to the forthcoming evening rush hour we terminated the train at New Southgate with "muggins" again doing the uncoupling. We then went light engine to KX Passenger Loco.

In the mess room at King's Cross I met the Loco Inspector who had been on the Leeds train. I showed him my hands and uniform jacketand said he should worry about his hands but what about mine. I forget what his reply was but it was probably something about it being part of my job but clipping points wasn't his!

Now anyone reading this might think I am complaining about my lot but believe me I am not, as I loved every aspect of the job. I used to say if asked what my hobbies were, that my hobby was my job and my job was my hobby. The worst thing about any job I held on the Railway was getting out of bed in the morning. Other than that it was great.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
The worst one I had was a swan-neck to a loco, cracked my head (regular habit) skinned my knuckles, and smacked myself in the face, with vac pipe, I was ready to go home that day I suppose I was lucky really, very rarely broke down anywhere and the few times we did are in the memories thread, except one, I was bringing a train back from Sheffield (via Barnsley), we had just left Wakefield Kirkgate, about a mile out, on our way to Normanton, when there was a bit of a bang, not loud, and we came to a quick halt, the driver got out and walked to the phone on a nearby signal, and called for help, the gearbox had jammed, anyway a train going the other way stopped to help us and we detrained our passengers by putting a ladder between the brakevans, we had two old ladies to try and get across, the could'nt get across for laughing, took a good 10 minutes to get them in the other train, in the end a loco turned up with a fitter, who disconnected the gearbox, then towed us the Neville Hill
manna

[bobser]

Hi manna,

When were you at Leeds?

From 1988 to 1991 I was a Trains Inspector for RRNE at Newcastle so whilst I didn't know many Leeds Conductors I knew Hugh Jennings, Martin Firth, Peter Kirton, Chris Guy, Tony Pilling and the other Trains Inspectors who were based at Leeds.

Then from 1991 until I had a heart attack I was Trains Manager at Newcastle and through that job I got to know Tony Wright, Bob Martin, Sandy Hamilton and Ray Gambol'

Did you get your ticket training at Tanner Row and if you did was Terry Graham the Instructor? Terry was a Travelling Ticket Inspector at Newcastle along with me in the early 80's. Unfortunately, he was made redundant during one of the many reorganisations whilst I ended up being promoted from Class A TTI to Class B TTI.

Bobser

[manna]

G'Day Gents
I started at Leeds depot June 1988, transfered in from Eastleigh depot, so I did my Guard and Ticket training on the Southern, but I did get a refresher and some instruction on the ticket machines at Leeds. I left Leeds to come to Australia in Oct 1991.
The only name that I know is Tony Pilling
manna

[mr B]

You know its summer in Austraillia when the Ashes catch fire! Great stuff mate keep it comming ! By the way anyone know why they call it Thornaby (51L) ? I've searched but cant find an explanation,no abbey even pre Henry 8th?

Mr B in sunny Redcar

[stembok]

Thornaby possibly derives from the old Norse (Scandinavian) ie Thormoth's Farm. You have the true Thornaby, the Thornaby village area and what is now also known as Thornaby, but was in the past often referred to as South Stockton across the River Tees facing Stockton proper. I remember 51L opening in 1958 and the facilities must have seemed amazing after some of the depots it replaced .Middlesbrough was a virtual ruin, much of it roofless and Newport on the site of Tees Yard was another grim place. Sad to see it [51L] deserted and no doubt awaiting demolition.

[Autocar Publicity]

That fits with my information, it is mentioned in the Doomsday Book as 'Tormozbi'.

Mr B, place-names' meanings are a complex subject and full of traps for the unwary - many apparently obvious meanings actually have completely different origins and translations. The catch is that most names date from languages used between 1,000 and 3,000 years ago - the spoken language has moved on but the place-name hasn't...

[mr B]

Thanks guy's, should have known better with only living 12 mile away. Mext time must try to remember to check with good old Wicky! Remember in my early days 1957/8 when Saltburn (51 K) crews transfered to the 'Abby, they seemed to change, lost freindlyness, did'nt have much time with us, no more cabbing and certainly no more cab rides At the same time we also lost the A8's in favour of the L1's Looking on the bright side to-day we are blessed with class142's


by for now Mr B