I'm not sure about during NER days, but as of a 1964 signalling plan, New Bridge Street is confirmed as OB 3 (i.e. the old New Bridge Street before the Central Motorway was built and the approach to New Bridge Street roundabout changed.)
Unfortunately, although Manors Station is shown with the footbridge between all the platforms, bridges 1 and 2 aren't numbered
In an operating notice from May 1973, the new New Bridge Street bridge (for the Central Motorway works) is OB 3A.
As far as the ECML goes through Manors:
UB 13 - City Road
UB 14 - Manors Station (Filled in, entrance onto Melbourne Street)
UB 14A - Manors Station (?Exactly where)
UB 15 - Trafalgar Street
UB 15A - Underbridge (??)
OB 16A - Manors Station (Footbridge?)
UB 17 - Argyle Street
.. no help as to whether Trafalgar Street also has a B&T bridge number LOL
I've sent Jon a spreadsheet of the data for the Manors North - Monkseaton line as an attachment to a PM, but in view of the interest in the situation at Manors, I set out the entries for the first three bridges:
From 1909 the Zero Point for the Blythe & Tyne is recorded in North Eastern Lines and Stations (Bragg & Scarlett, NERA 1999) as Manors Junction 0m 42¼ch on the Newcastle & Berwick. Prior to 1909 the ZP was the buffers at at New Bridge Street station and all mileages were 16ch less
PinzaC55 wrote:I took this picture of Jesmond station in late 1977 just before it closed but sadly even under magnification it's impossible to see the bridge number.
this bridge has been modified /re built at least twice in my lifetime, notice the gradient of the line from under the bridge which was most [at maybe 40 to 50 mph] noticable when travelling to the coast on a express which never stopped at jesmond .can not remember whether the diesel car service ever ran expresses . but i do know that the gwr high density car[compartments] lasted about 2 weeks ,as when they where loaded they dipped in the middle so the doors would not shut properly so where hastly swopped.
The Engineers line diagram for a route gives a sketch representation of the line in the form of a longitudinal diagram of the line. Not neccessarily to scale.
Some lines may be covered by less than 1/2 a page such as 1 side of a triangle, others may take 50 or more pages such as Leeds Northern from Leeds to Gateshead and Newcastle.
The layout of the page is broken down into Miles / Chains / Yards and Links (approx 9 inch)
They record all track features such as Curves and Cant, Switch Toes, Bridges start and Finish, Culverts, Platforms and lineside structures such as PW huts and signal boxes.
There is a straight line diagram of the track layout with a remarks section alongside which usually has a plan view of any Under or over bridges.
NERA have produced some copies of the diagrams in an A4 booklet but my copies are approx 18" x 14" and so need to be copied on A3 top and bottom of page.
I will try and scan a section to illustrate what I mean later.
My copies were rescued from a skip when we moved office about 1994.
As stated before here is a sample of an Engineers line diagram.
In this case it is of a recent A3 copy of page 29 of the Whitby branch.
In particular the page dealing with the current bridge works at Br 30.
In this case it lists the C/l of the bridge at 21 mile and 72 chain and 46 links.
With bridge numbers it should not be forgotten that some bridges will also be numbered as A,B, C etc especially when a structure is added after the original structure numbering survey unless it was alreay planned to be built but not yet constructed. (A bit like missing motorway junctions currently.)
Suffix lettering always progresses with mileage unless another structure is added again.
Frequently used to number small culverts. The highest suffix letter I can recall is N
Thanks Bryan, I've never seen those before - great to see what they look like. A mine of information that isn't in the Sectional Appendices! Has anyone seen the A4 versions that NERA produce? Are they readable at that scale?
Before he died I was in touch with Patrick Howat of the NERA, of which I am also a member.
He said that they had nearly all the line diagrams except the Malton - Driffield.
I wonder if this is because it closed before most of the other lines in the region?
The A4 repro's are readable just but not good at reproducing.
Most of my copies are on the original parchment type material which is darkened with age, use, staining and some damage. But they are readable and can be copied.
Most of mine are for the area bounded by Hull, Scarborough, Teeside, Dales and York.
With some exceptions such as the wetherby area which I do not have except for its junction at Cross Gates.
"He said that they had nearly all the line diagrams except the Malton - Driffield.
I wonder if this is because it closed before most of the other lines in the region?"
Unlikely.I have a longstanding affection for the M&DR and am a member of the Yorkshire Wolds Railway which hopes to reopen part of it.
In my 33 year career of collecting railwayana I have found that ANY M&DR paperwork or artifacts are keenly sought after so they rarely surface.Such a line diagram would be treasured by whoever owns it.
The friend of mine has the Line Diagram for the Alnwick branch, and as you say, it is a mine of information. There are several hand written notes alongside the main diagram showing changes that had taken place over the years such as changes to the drainage, clearances, signalling arrangements etc.
I also knew the owner of the complete set of diagrammes for the west coast line from Euston to Glasgow plus the various chords and connecting lines. He died a few years ago and I can only hope that his widow knew the importance of the documents and made sure that they went to a good home.
PinzaC55 wrote:Third Rail said " there was iam sure at the eastern end of the south/east curve at benton there was a box which it controlled that junction and also a diamond crossing to get coal spoil to the large heap that was there, the remains of which formed the hill the metro climbs to get over the heavy rail lines"
refering to pinzas photo
when i was about 14 i was taken into south gosforth east box by a certain will armstrong [a railway inspector at the time, who was always being called at short notice to attend rail mishaps] who told me he would get me a job as a signal lad but as large scale modenisation was taking place at the time i declined his offer.to the right of the box stood the substationit controlled the car sheds ,the colliery line that came down from fawdon and jubilee pits [not the ponteland branch]from the top of the box you culd see past longbenton sta probalyo see over the vicars lane bridge,the offshoot you can see at the rear by the door housed the remote switchgear for the substation next door.the south gosforth sta signal box board is in the nrm. note east has been painted out on the picture
There are a few factual errors in the above regarding South Gosforth East.
1. The substation at this location did not control the Car Sheds. It was installed in 1934 as part of the upgrade to the electrical infrastructure. It supplied the running lines in the vicinity, and the Car Sheds took their supply from the Gosforth Loop - the section of line connecting South Gosforth East Junction to South Gosfoerh West Junction. When the South Gosforth East substation was switched off during the night and the outside conductor rails were dead, the Car Sheds had its own independant substation. The small substation was installed in 1923 when the Car Sheds were opened.
2. The colliery line was the Seaton Burn & Burradon Coal Company line that ran from Hazelrigg down through Coxlodge and continued on to form the Coxlodge Waggonway. By the 1930's the line terminated at the site of Gosforth Colliery which had become a landsale coal depot. By 1937, the crossing over the LNER at South Gosforth East to reach this depot was removed as it had been little used. Coal traffic was exchanged in the sidings to the west of the South Gosforth East box.
3. The switchgear mentioned was out-of-use by 1954. The original 1904 electrification saw several signal boxes provisioned with a hand-operated switchboard for the sectioning of the conductor rail. South Gosforth East was erected in 1904 and provisioned with one of these switchboards. They were fitted in a wooden annex to the rear of the signal boxes concerned on the same level as the operating frame. The photograph of South Gosforth East clearly shows this. After WW2 these 1904-era switchboards were removed and small ground-level brick switch chambers were built to bring the electrical system up to date with modern practice. These switch chambers housed high-speed circuit breakers to replace the hand-operated knife switches and were remotely controlled from a purpose-built control room at Carville. This scheme was completed by 1956 and replaced the 1904 control system which was run by direct telephone lines interconnecting the appropriate signal box with the substations, all under the control of Carville. The switch chamber at South Gosforth East was immediately at the back of the signal box adjacent to the stairs.
In repsonse to one of the questions re the North Tyneside loop 'expresses', yes these ran in DMU days after 3rd rail electrics ceased running. I remember boarding one such service unknowingly at Whitley Bay sometime in the early 1970s: it was great to avoid the tedious frequent stops after West Monkseaton, and even better for the unexpected bonus of a trip past Heaton Carriage Sidings.
I think they only ran Mon-Fri (otherwise me and my parents would have used them more often), in the morning rush hour for commuters going to Newcastle from the Coast, and vice-versa in the evening. Probably only one or two services in each direction.
BlythStationLad wrote:In repsonse to one of the questions re the North Tyneside loop 'expresses', yes these ran in DMU days after 3rd rail electrics ceased running. I remember boarding one such service unknowingly at Whitley Bay sometime in the early 1970s: it was great to avoid the tedious frequent stops after West Monkseaton, and even better for the unexpected bonus of a trip past Heaton Carriage Sidings.
I think they only ran Mon-Fri (otherwise me and my parents would have used them more often), in the morning rush hour for commuters going to Newcastle from the Coast, and vice-versa in the evening. Probably only one or two services in each direction.
I am certain that at least by the mid-1960s when I travelled to school from the coast to Jesmond there was only a single electric scheduled service via the south east curve. It started at Monkseaton, called at West Monkseaton and then ran non-stop to Manors East (this was the only clue in the public time table that it was doing anything unusual). I cannot remember there being any equivalent scheduled return journey. I have the diesel replacement timetable in front of me which shows the train leaving Monkseaton at 0822SX There is no longer a reference to 'Manors East', but the timings show it was going via the mainline. There are now six other daily trains through to the early afternoon which have the same timings and a number of return journeys (and complete a complete 'circle' from or to Newcastle Central). I don't remember these, but it would suggest the SE curve was being used much more.
i think there was a time when one train an hour ran as a express but only lasted for one season it was not unusual for unadvertised expresses to run at very busy holiday weekends as traffic dictated and oganised localy other than have to get permission from higher up.[say york]where it might be raining!!]
