hq1hitchin wrote:We've talked about L1s on here before. They were handsome looking engines but had a nasty habit of shaking themselves to bits at speed and shedding their motion, although that didn't stop a set of Hitchin men taking one through to Brighton once on an excursion!
Yes I vaguely remember reading something of that kind. I wonder how many times they had to stop for water?
The L1s were certainly noisy when running at speed. They had a spell on the Cambridge Buffet Expresses and coming past Greenwood at around 60mph on an up working sounded as if they were falling apart. That was probably how they got the nickname of 'Cement Mixers'.
My first ever footplate ride was on an almost new L1 at Princes Risborough where they used to arrive on the trains from Marylebone and run round ready to return to London. The friendlier crews used to let us hop on their engines during this manouvre.
Bill Harvey's autobiography 'Sixty Years in Steam' gives a fascinating insight into the mechanical problems encountered with the L1 tanks on the GC and this at a time when they were brand new engines. I imagine things would be at their worst on duties where they regularly had to run fast, for example on the GN south of Hitchin. The problem seems to have been lack of robustness, shared to an extent with Thompson's B1s.This led to fractures of oil pipes, with accompanying overheating of bearings, leaking water tanks and heavy motion wear. The engines were literally shaking themselves to pieces. Various palliatives were tried in the 1950s, such as reductions in cylinder diameter or boiler pressure in order to bring repair costs down, but without success.
From 1948 onwards the only depots in the North Eastern region that had L1s were Darlington 51A, West Hartlepool 51C, Stockton 51E, Hull Botanic Gardens 53B most of the others were on the Eastern region except for a few at Coventry & Northwich. I asume the ones at Northwich were used on the Cheshire lines what about the ones at Coventry.
From British Railways Steam Locomotive allocations 1948-1968 part 4 by Jim Grindlay
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
52D wrote:From 1948 onwards the only depots in the North Eastern region that had L1s were Darlington 51A, West Hartlepool 51C, Stockton 51E, Hull Botanic Gardens 53B most of the others were on the Eastern region except for a few at Coventry & Northwich. I asume the ones at Northwich were used on the Cheshire lines what about the ones at Coventry.
From British Railways Steam Locomotive allocations 1948-1968 part 4 by Jim Grindlay
Is that right about L1s at Coventry and Northwich or any dates for them? Northwich might just be right as a temporary move from Gorton but Coventry sounds a very unlikely place for that class. I think that may be a case of confusion with the shed codes, which were shuffled about quite a bit from the late 1950s onwards. Coventry was 2D in 1951 and when Woodford Halse moved into the LMR it was also given a 2 District code, becoming 2F, but even that changed and I think it may even have ended up with a 1 District code.
Here's a scan from my 1951 Locoshed Book, which I believe was the very first edition. The allocations in this book are stated to be as at May 19 1951 and I have 4 north east area L1s underlined 67710/27/39/58 - no idea when or where I saw them. Did they move around at all and perhaps spent some time in the south? Also note 2 V3s 67664/79 still reported as allocated to 32A Norwich in 1951. When did they move north?
Attachments
1951 Ian Allan Locoshed Book - the underlinings all look the same on every page so could well be from around the date of publication.
Just a senior moment i hadnt been thinking about Woodford Halse i have 67740/771/789 at 2F in 1959. Coventry was initially coded 2F in 1948 but by 1952 had changed to 2D did Woodford change codes when the ex GCR lines became part of the LMR as i have it as 38E till closure.
The locos at Northwich 9G were transferred from KX or Neasden between 1955 and 1959.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
Yes, Woodford became 2F when the line was taken over by the LMR, in 1958 I think it was. They got rid of most of the LNER types but Woodford shed didn't close until the mid-1960s. By that time it had been recoded again and ended up as 1G I believe. Also at about the same time as the LMR takeover of the GC it was Gorton that became 9G, so those transfers were probably not to Northwich after all. The L1s had all been withdrawn before Northwich which we knew as 8E was recoded. The changes of shedcodes in the last few years were so frequent that it was hard to keep track of them.
Last edited by Flamingo on Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm reminded of a tale regarding an L1, related by an-ex King's Cross signalman of, I would think, the late 1950s/early'60s.
The story went that one early weekday afternoon, an L1 was legitimately signalled off 'Passenger Loco' towards the Down Main No.1 to enter Gasworks Tunnel. Somewhere on or around No.161 switch-diamonded double slips in 'D' Route (opposite, but not right next to, the later 'elephant house' diesel shed), it was stopped by its pony wheels becoming derailed. This was not an obstruction that was very difficult to work around at the time, while the signal linemen, PWay, and 'the Loco' were all called and attended to work out why this had happened, as well as seeing to re-railing. The latter was soon achieved and the loco sent back on shed.
However all departments' site investigations led to everyone declaring that there was no fault with their respective equipment.
One might imagine that this could have resulted in some heated conversations, as it was decided to reconstruct the incident by again running the loco off shed by the same route, under their observation, no doubt all convinced that nothing would happen this time.
Unfortunately, during the movement, the same wheels left the rails again at exactly the same spot. Even more unfortunately, the time was now past 4.30 p.m., and 'working around' while re-railing was again seen to, was considerably more difficult and delay-ful at that busier time of day.
Regrettably he never heard if a cause was ever finally established.
I'm reminded of another L1 incident at KX, in roughly about the same period. One evening just as dusk was approaching I was at the end of Platform 10 watching the comings and goings. One departure from the suburban side platforms particularly attracted my attention. An L1 with its train pulled out very slowly indeed, but what was most noticeable was the sound it made. I was almost certain that it made only 2 exhaust puffs per revolution all the way out of the station and into Gasworks Tunnel, as if it was working on only one cylinder. The only explanation I could think of as to how that might be possible was that the motion on one side of the engine had been disconnected, but it was too dark to see and it might have been on the side I couldn't see anyway. If so they must have been desperate for locos to send out a cripple on an evening commuter train, and if had been stopped by signals on Holloway bank I doubt if it would have been able to restart. Is such a thing possible, or are there any alternative explanations for what I heard?
W/E 25/11/61 L1s Nos 67742/55/63/65/77 were transferred to 56B and nos 67754/59/64 to 56F as replacements for withdrawn J50s. In return 51A received 40190,42085,42477, 42553 and 42639. The L1s suffered several derailments in their first few weeks in the West Riding and 67766 'ran away' and severely damaged a diesel shunter at Bradford. Of these nos 67755/63/65/66 were withdrawn 12/62, their replacements being BR Standard 4 tanks taken from store at March ER. The West Riding also received 67721 from elsewhere (LMR?) and possibly one or two more.
I can't add much to this fascinating discussion and tales of the L1s but, to lighten the winter chill for those of us in northern latitudes, here's a picture taken in the warm evening light at Grantham on June 21st, midsummer's day, in 1962. There are actually three of these engines visible (or, more accurately, the back ends of their bunkers!), the nearest being on a train in the Nottingham bay (platform 4 then, 3 now).
I believe Grantham received the L1s quite late, after they had been displaced from some of the the suburban and other duties that much of the above discussion has been about. They replaced Grantham's last GN tanks and 0-6-0s, but they were only there for a few years as DMUs took over the Nottingham services from January 1963. A retired Grantham driver told me that they were not bad engines, but that they had a tendency to slip if not carefully managed.
Interestingly, in every photo I have which shows L1s at Grantham the front end is invariably facing south. I will have to ask my contacts at Grantham if they can remember if there was any reason for this but, reading StevieG's story, I'm wondering if it could have had anything to do with avoiding a tendency to derail in certain situations?
Attachments
Last edited by 61070 on Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As in the case of the engineman referred to by 61070 one or two Darlington men I spoke to echoed the same thoughts on the L1s as the Gantham driver. They seemed in general to prefer the Gresley V tanks, but appreciated the power and the greater water capacity of the L1. They also seemed quite happy with the LMS tanks they got in exchange for the L1s in 1961, save for the usual complaints about LMS injectors. In those days I was always intrigued by the full size cab doors on some of the Darlington L1s, complete with vertical sliding window. Was this a general fitment for the class? Darlington's 67777 was known to one and all in the 1950s as "the flying sevens".
Despite their power the L1s could give their drivers some anxious moments with slipping, as in the climb out of King's Cross through the tunnels with ecs trains of sleeping car stock. The other problem was braking power when used on freight work and as my previous post notes the transfer of L1s to the West Riding in 1961 to replace J50s was not a complete success.
61070, I love your dad's pics. Just to go slightly aside from the main topic if I may, your photos are a wonderful source for modellers in the detail they reveal. Couple of things I noted here, the different design of the centre lamppost from the other two. Scrolling down to the very bottom of the photo, I notice the grass/moss growing through the cracks in the paving. Also the stripe of replaced asphalt where a pipe repair had been made at some point. Great photo, thanks again. Sorry for the digression.
